Anatomy Of a Losing Argument: Young Jeezy Come On Down!
I believe it was the great prophet and soothsayer, Big Daddy Kane, who uttered the now famous words:
“…stick a quarter in your ass cuz you played yourself…”
Deep.
Deep.
Those words are like a no smoking sign on your cigarette break or the free ride, when you’ve already paid. Some would say those things are ironic. Me, I say those things mean you don’t read. Usually there are signs up that let you know all the information that you need to know.
Myself and Ace of Base? We saw the signs.
Thus brings us to one Jay Jenkins, better known as Young Jeezy, your favorite trapper’s favorite trapper, from Atlanta, by way of Macon, Georgia.
Young Jeezy is an idiot. If you have any time, please listen to this interview he conducted with Monie Love on a Philadelphia radio station. It is well worth it.
Radio Interview with Young Jeezy and Monie Love [spotted via Nah Right]
In this interview, myriad things are discussed: Lil Wayne’s comments about Jay-Z, hip-hop being dead, international relations and diplomacy, global warming, Tolstoy and the novel Crime and Punishment.
Okay, only the first two things were actually discussed.
I could be showing my age here, but I’ll just attempt to show all of your ages too. How many people here know who Monie Love is?
*lots of raised hands*
Oooh, oooh, better question. Who here knows better than to get into an argument with a Black woman??
*everybody’s hand (all nationalities, races, creeds) should be raised*
Let’s discuss how you lose an argument, like an idiot.
Ever since Nas decided to name his album Hip-Hop Is Dead, the streets have been abuzz with people debating that theory. This was either a brilliant marketing ploy by Nas to get everybody talking about him or just dumb luck. Well, the Youngest of Jeezy’s gets roped into a conversation about hip hop being dead.
He disagrees. Fine. And truthfully, call me an elitist or whatever, but why anybody would debate with Jeezy about hip-hop being dead is beyond me. I mean this is the same dude who rhymes words like “John Madden” with…
…John Madden. Or my personal favorite line of his, “…speaking of pockets, mine got the mumps…”
Pure poetry right there, my friend. Pure poetry.
But Jeezy decides that this is an argument he wants because apparently he has some feelings about this whole hip-hop is dead quagmire that so many artists are facing today. You see, Jeezy, though having said he’s not a rapper but a hustler who raps, has taken this personally. Somehow, he feels like Nas has made a personal affront to him or other rappers of his ilk. Ego much? He doesn’t say it so much as its implied from his tone.
Or maybe Monie Love just got to him and he started talking reckless off the dome because he didn’t have time to think. Who knows…either way, Youngest of Jeezy’s…this is your life.
And this is how you lose an argument. Monie Love posits that the concept of hip-hop is dead since hip-hop, as it were, was more inclusive and just one area didn’t get shine (as is now with the crack-rap, drug dealer turned rapper, bling-bling, crap rap) as happens now.
Jeezy feels that hip-hop isn’t dead…its just a new day and time with a new movement. Rap is for the kids. Rap is here to sell records.
Wu-Tang is (also) for the kids.
But uh oh…Jeezy fucks it all up and starts down the wrong road by asking Monie where she’s from (which would be London). He seems to be asking as if that where she’s from would make her perspective of rap completely different.
Nevermind that this is Monie Love of Native Tongues fame. The same Monie Love who’s been rapping for years and years. In the United States. With cats from the same streets that Jeezy probably claims to respect.
Somehow, Jeezy interprets Nas saying hip-hop is dead, and Monie Love saying that hip-hop is dead as them saying that they don’t respect Jeezy’s craft. Umm…nobody said that.
Poor Jeezy, because then he goes the route that so many misguided youth go when they misunderstand or take things too personally regarding hip-hop. You see, Jeezy, in his defense of hip-hop (and his role in hip-hop) being alive goes straight for the worst two arguments in history:
1) (Nas’ first week) record sales; and
2) (Nas’) street credibility.
Two things that have jack shit to do with hip-hop on their own. Yes, in today’s day and age, we do care about record sales. Even the hip-hop heroes of yore are complaining that they’re not selling millions. Nevermind that they’re making shitty albums or that they’re selling what they’ve always sold.
But umm…the focus on record sales is KIND OF the problem. And yes I’m fully aware that hip-hop is more business than artistry at this point.
Same goes for street-credibility. Umm…who really cares. If you’re the hardest, most connected, dude in the street, but you suck as a rapper *coughJeezycough* who the fuck cares. And that doesn’t define hip-hop either. Hell, A Tribe Called Quest weren’t any street hard niggas but I’d bet that Jeezy wouldn’t go saying they weren’t hip-hop.
Plus, Nas has never been out here talking about “busting guns” as Jeezy says. Unless I missed that album.
(I didn’t.)
Thing is, this idiot is PROVING her point for her. There’s only one school of thought from most people nowadays (well the youngsters) and that’s street cred and record sales. That’s what makes you a legit rapper. And that’s exactly what Monie Love was getting at…that is not hip-hop as it was. My favorite part of the interview is whoever is in the background that says: “because THAT’S hip-hop!” sarcastically as Jeezy rattles off about Nas’ street credibility, or lack thereof.
I heart her.
And let’s clear this up. Jeezy is not a good rapper. Never was. He’s a catchy rapper. Jeezy is syphillis. Fuckin’ around long enough with the shit that’s out there (all the wack ass music out now) and you just might catch something (Jeezy). But when you finally get tested (actually start listening to the music and what he’s saying) you want a cure (ANYTHING is better than Jeezy at this point being as his new album is a 2 dollar ho).
Jeezy is a product of our times. His first album sold well because he was “different”. At this point, I have no idea what his appeal is. Between him and Rick Ross, if it wasn’t for catchy beats, they’d pretty much be obsolete ass negroes. But even I listened for a minute and was caught up. He’s a master marketer. Ad-libs, catchy hooks and banging beats and wham! Jeezy did the same thing that 50 said The Game did. Average rapping over great production (The Documentary) and by George Michael, you have an instant hit.
Let me also add this, I’m not an elitist, nothing-but-the-old-school, backpack rap enthusiast who thinks Lupe Fiasco is the second coming of Jesus for rap music. In fact, I do not like Lupe Fiasco. I like commercial stuff just as much as I like “underground” and I don’t think hip-hop is dead. But it aint my debate, it’s Jeezy versus Monie Love.
Jeezy sounds like so many southern rappers nowadays who are taking everything personal. Granted, a lot of rappers from NY have been hating on the South…but its because they aren’t selling and they’re bitter. Oh well, NY needs to get the fuck over it. And make better music. But these niggas can’t take everything so personal either. For fuck’s sake Jeezy, nobody said they didn’t respect your craft (well I think you suck, but nobody asked me)…Monie pointed out that rap isn’t what it used to be…and who hasn’t said that?
“All these rappers sound the same…” or “everything out now is the same ole same ole…”
Any fan, including most rappers, has said that at some point.
Oh well, Young Jeezy has morphed himself into an idiot and he totally lost an argument by not thinking. He even capped it off by walking out, which is also known as the ultimate bitch move…oh well…
Since Nas started this, I think it’s only right that Nas finishes it. Young Jeezy, you’ve just been…
…ethered.
immature ass little prick boy
Good post. Good argument. I have nothing more to say than “Well done!”
Bpd: are you referring to jeezy, nas, or panama?
You make valid points homie but let me beg to differ in a few areas. In my opinion Jezzy has made some hot shit. Its beauty is in its simplicity. His first album was one of the hottest shits in a long time. Not everyone wants to hear about Socrates philosophies from NY rappers. The environment toward southern rappers for years was dismissive and hostile. And now that the south has shit on lock those in NY say that Hip-Hop is dead because they arent top dog anymore. I regret that artist like ‘Ball and G never saw the commercial success of a Luda or TI but now its out time. Its the same fear and jealousy that conservatives would have you believe about minorities in America. Jeezy may been out of line a bit but whats a black man without his paranoia, defensive reactionary spirit and huge chip on his shoulder.
I didnt really love hip hop like that until Outkast started doin it. Tribe and Deep were on my radar but I still viewed that culture as very removed from my southern roots. Then I began to listen to voices in rap music that sounded alot like people I knew.
And that Lupe is the hot ish too. I have no idea why any fan of Hip-Hop would eat this album up. The production is silly great the whole way through and this dude makes great rhyming seem effortless. If this album isnt grammy nominated then I dont know what people are listening to.
And Tolstoy wrote War and Peace. Dostoevsky wrote Crime and Punishment.
I heard him this morning on Donnie Simpson. He seemed like a civilized child. Very deferent in fact. But then Donnie wasn’t trying to ask questions to excite him.
me being a southern enthusiast and representa, i think i’m siding with jeezy on this one.
just like escobar is entitled to his holier-than-thou assessment of the hip-hop landscape, i think jeezy, no matter how ill-equipped he seems to actually handle the argument, is entitled as well.
and monie love, no matter how credible her bckgrnd, didn’t really put out a particularly sound argument herself…hip-hop inclusive?!!!? to me, hip-hop since its inception has involved some element of pure and unadulterated separtism and one-upmanship (i.e. the heads and the steet folks, cube and nwa, moe dee and ll, the east and west, the bronx and queens, etc.).
plus,i do think that street cred, or authenticity, underscores what makes hip hop what it is — its brashness, its volatility, it’s emotiveness…hell, i think southern dudes are the only ones giving these qualities, even if they are lacking on the creativity front. i guess my pt. is that i can’t knock jeezy for standing on his principle, even if i woulda handled it a bit differently…
JK – Sugar Hill Gang wasn’t poppin about bustin guns – street cred underscores what hip hop is now because that’s what we’ve made it – but that shouldn’t be all its about
On one hand, I can feel Jeezy being a little salty about the hip hop is dead line, though I do think Monie Love was trying to show him respect in the beginning
but he lost me when he jumped on the Nas doesn’t bust guns, Nas doesn’t have homies in the feds – as if those are inherent and necessary traits of hip hop
beyond that, Jeezy is a “hustler” – why the hell is he getting so worked up about another man’s album title? oh that’s real gangsta – and ironic that Jeezy, of all people, would take personal affront to any inferences about his “craft” – this from the man who has made no secret that he’s not in it for the love of the art
this last couple months of rap feels like I’m sitting sideline to a vets/rookies game, with the occasional outrageous halftime show (Dipset!)
referring to Jeezy, and let me be clear..the whole thing about Nas, selecting that title, is that he was making a statement based on HIS OWN perception. The way Jeezy chose to qualify his shit clearly shows that his definition of hip hop and it’s evolution (de-evolution?) is skewed. The part that irks me is this..have an opinion, be passionate about it, but also be informed. If you AUTOMATICALLY take the album title as a direct affront to the shit YOU are popping off – could it be, you are telling on how YOU value your hustle? Seems to me, if you want to align today’s game with the original thought, culture, etc.. you will acknowedge that there HAS been a shift – and that shift is a result of a LOT of things, but assuming it means your ass ain’t talented? yea, ya tellin on yourself homie. STFU already
I think he was a punk for walking out…LOL
@JK: Perhaps I’m mis-interpreting Monie’s thoughts here, but when she said ‘inclusiveness’ I think she meant it as in, it was possible for many different types of rappers to eat at the table. Thing is, she could be speaking from an acceptanced mindframe, which would be on the people and not so much the artist, but it is what it is.
In fact, Kanye seems to be the only non-street, non-drug dealing rapper with any form of real success, well Luda too, but he be talkin’ about “bustin’ his guns”. LOL. The shift from a hip-hop where you could have a PE, a NWA, a Tribe, etc. just doesnt exist anymore. Granted, I don’t think hip-hop is dead or on life support…but I do think that the creative force that spawned an entire movement is gone…shit, there seems to be very little love, with so many niggas clearly seeming to shoot for the money angle.
But I mean that’s what happens when any artform goes global. the music business turns into the business of music.
@thehomiewood: Jeezy’s first album was hot…but how much of that really had to do with Jeezy? His second album blows because his beats suck this time. And I’m a southern music fan, thru and thru. He’s not a good rapper. Does he manage to say shit sometimes worthy of note? Sure he does…but I remember thinking to myself and having the convo that had T.I. had Jeezy’s beats he’d have had a certified classic (this was before King dropped).
Cuz T.I. CAN rap.
You know, I don’t think I’d have had beef with Jeezy if he actually SOUNDED like informed. He sounded like a nigga who didn’t know what he was talking about. Even from the way he wouldn’t let Monie Love talk…he kept cutting her off…being that defensive before she even got to make her point (which she never fully got a chance to do…)
And um…Lupe’s album is not hot. In my opinion anyway. I like the bootleg more and I even can’t stand the song with Jill Scott…
And I know Tolstoy wrote War and Peace…perhaps I should have put a comma there after it so it wouldnt look like I was thinking Tolstoy wrote Crime and Punishment. Thanks for the info, but I’m aware.
But did you know that the original title of the book was supposed to be War What Is it Good FOR?
@Wood: Now that I did not know.
“But did you know that the original title of the book was supposed to be War What Is it Good FOR?”
someone’s obviously a seinfeld fan.
@diva,
i wasn’t suggesting that street cred is the end- all-be-all, but it has ALWAYS been one of the defining characterstics of the music…street cred isn’t a new phenomenon…just b/c the sugar hill gang wasn’t speaking on it doesn’t make it the gospel for what hip hop was…folks as far back as the furious five were speaking on hood ills, inequalities, disenfranchisement, etc…the stuff that equates to street cred in today’s lingo…if it’s glorified now more than observed and critiqued, then i credit that to folks trying to empower themselves by exploiting something with a negative and corrosive connotation, not too disimilar from the word that got cosmo kramer in so much trouble.
and we cringe when artists like chingy blow up with shit like right thurr but, it, and topic-lite songs like it, but dont properly examine and acknowledge its orgins in the party anthems and cavalier subject matters of the very same sugar hill gang, or will smith or young emcee, that was trumpeted out there what hip hop could be…
@killa, i think there’s plenty of inclusiveness in rap; you throw kanyeze out there, but if you gauge the success of the artform by its success in the mainstream, then of course it’ll come up short…i mean its plenty of folks out there “eating” on hip hop, but if you’re talking about lavish 6-course meals and what not then that brings it all down to consumerism, which i dont think should serve as the barometer for how the music is faring. if j, nas, jeezy aint your style, there’s always your lil brothers, kev browns, kidz n the hall, zion i, pigeon johns, etc., etc., etc. that you can choose to nod your head to…but the question of whether they’ll sell out the verizon center is a corollary to the same point that i think jeezy was trying to make…about connectedness.
i dont want to hear nothing about hip hop being dead, when its shit out there like the abysmally selling fishscale. i guess what im trying to say is that with such a diverse and interesting array of choices in the music, i dont think nas’s assertion about the plight of hip hop is any more informed than jeezy’s…
Hip Hop isn’t dead.
The art form as I know and love has changed and become commercial. It is no longer a underground thing. Now it’s about record sales and catchy phrases and catchy beats.
It’s become what rock n’ roll is. A legitimate musical genre and a BUSINESS. People feel rock is dead but yet the Who keep touring and they’re down to two members.
You got guys like Planet Asia, Zion I, Little Brother and Aceyalone. Sure they might not sell a lot of records but at least they are making music.
People love using that term “dead” but what they really mean to say is it’s just not what it used to be.
@JK: when i said informed, i didn’t mean about the grand scope of hip-hop, i meant even in the shit that was just being said in that interview room. he sounded like an idiot to me who got cornered and lashed out with a bunch of non-sense. talking about Nas ain’t living the shit he’s rapping about…da hell??? that let me know right there that he ain’t know exactly what the fuck he was talking about.
any nigga who would have said that shit he was saying, to you or I, would have gotten the gas face and been argued down about it…if not altogether just dismissed.
either way, i think everybody’s missing the big picture…none of this is nas’ fault or even jeezy’s fault…
…its all puffy and jim jones fault.
but Jeezy dug his own hole and disproved his own point – if Nas doesn’t want to be lumped together with a particular set of artists and what they represent, I don’t think he is taking away from their talent, record sales, or fan base, he is saying his definition of what it meant to him, is not the same as what the hip hop hustle means to others in the game- so it’s dead to him, and a lot of other people.
when you want to homogenize the shit that gave birth to your present day hustle, and cry like your feelings are hurt because you felt singled out – it just speaks more volumes about your own talent – or lack thereof, then the statement itself
also, a point that p briefly touched on for a bit but people seem to forget is that commerical rap has ALWAYS been the best selling. there have always been cats like hammer and domino and coolio and crucial conflict and chingy who are going to make more radio-friendly and easily digestible music, which usually results in more record sales. shit, even going back 11-12 years, to the “golden era of east coast hiphop” when records such as illmatic and reasonable doubt and the infamous and only built for cuban links were released, none of those albums tore through the billboard charts. “hip-hop is dead” is probably going to sell as many units in its first year as illmatic did.
this goes across genres as well. the best show that’s ever been on tv (the wire) gets maybe a tenth of the publicity as grey’s anatomy or CSI. movies that are easier to digest, such as “pirates of the carribean”, are always going to be more popular than shit like “the departed”. thats just the way things always have, and always will work. for whatever reason, rappers and rap fans in general dont seem to grasp that concept.
@Doc Strangejazz: What’s up homey…
You know…as much as I’d like to really say those groups and others of their ilk are good, some of those folks don’t sell a lot of records not ONLY because they don’t get the promotional push of say a Def Jam (though Little Brother is on Atlantic)…a lot of their music just ain’t good.
Or maybe I’ve been pushed to such a point where I just hate everything, but Aceyalone hasn’t made a good album to me yet. Sure these dudes can “rap” (I guess…with the exception of Phonte of Little Brother, I think most of them suck), but they dont make good whole products.
So in that instance, Jeezy’s album would be better…sad as that is to say.
And I’m not speaking specifically about those artists you named, I’m speaking more of the underground in general.
Hmm…I’m not sure what my point was here, so maybe I just felt like sharing. And sharing is caring.
I do think Zion I’s “True and Livin’” album is amazing though. Though JK would WHOLLY disagree…
@killa, i dont think there’s much of a difference between jeezy’s lashing out in ignorance and nas’s assertion about the music…theyre both two dude’s opinions, and dont have to be rooted in much of anything to make them any more or less valid than the next…
oh, i love this. i think i will have to listen to it. i have my own theories about hip hop being dead, but i guess maybe it would show my age. (sigh)
Most Hip-Hop sucks, and has for a looooong time. I don’t think the overall state of Hip-Hop has been good since 1995-ish. That’s when the “inclusion” started to turn. And, honestly, I don’t want all the rappers to eat at the table. I want the D-Boys and coke peddlers to eat outside…..or, better yet, starve to death. And I don’t care how well they rap or not. It bothers me that we argue quality when it comes to Hip-Hop when we really need to focus on content, content, content. At this point, with where we are in the world, I am far less concerened with who’s spitting the best lyrics because most of the rappers call women bitches and hoes (how do I look jamming to that?), big-ticket purchases (wow, can’t relate to the thought of purchasing a Maybach), seling drugs (again, how do I look supporting that?)….cautionary tales have given way to celebration. Then theres crap like the last few Black Eyed Peas records and that trash Fergie makes: Hip-Pop.
But you tripping about Lupe. His flows are crazy.
Jeezy sounded stupid and defensive! clearly he never joined the debate team. Monie Love’s perspective was biased as well b’cuz there’s NEVER been a perfect balance of “positive/negative, everybody eat from the same table, all inclusive hip-hop industry”!
if that were the case her career would’ve lasted much longer than 1 album…or any female rapper for that matter.
side note: why is it that Lil’ Kim is the ONLY female rapper to have 3 certified platinum albums?
y’know…this same argument was discussed more than 12 years ago! although Common didn’t say “Hip-Hop Is Dead”, he did say he ain’t love H.E.R no mo’.
Ice Cube took issue with that cuz he said Common dissed the West!
when rap 1st started being recorded on records, A LOT of the pioneers probably never sold as much as 1/100th as the Sugar Hill Gang – three dudes from the street who Sylvia Robinson just happen to throw together!
split hairs all u want, but when’s the last time anybody been to a jam in the park or saw dudes rhymin’ on a street corner? anybody ever tag a wall or train? when’s the last time u broke down a cardboard box and spun on your head?
rap music is the last and most prominent remnant of hip-hop culture. its also the most lucrative. when money’s involved…it changes everything!
I PERSONALLY agree with Monnie that Hip Hop is dead! Jeezy despite the fact that I LOVED his first album sounded REAL DUMB!!!! He was wrong first of all he didn’t hear her out, then he took it to another level and got all in his feelings like a little bitch. If numbers so called speaks for it’s self, then the way he was going on he should have just been quite and let her talk! But it is not all about numbers! Monnie should know something about hip hop being dead being that she was a pioneer of it! He had the nerve to ask her where she is from? Your in this LIFSTYLE called Hip Hop expressing your feelings and you don’t know the HISTORY of it, who was in it, what they did and where they came from? How you living something you know nothing about? You couldn’t talk to Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks about what your doing for human rights like you know so much with out offending them. So why would you dare do the same to Monnie Love? She helped open the doors for unskilled rappers like jeezy to be successfull in the game doing whatever it is he do best. And to talk to her with the level of disrespect shows his immaturity and ignorance. Go back to the streets Jeezy your ass is DUMB! What you should do is make up a name for your sound and your way of life and stick with that instead of trying to be accepted in a society known as Hip Hop. You don’t know nothing about it and they don’t want nothing to do with your ignorance so move on!
Sigh……
Hip Hop is not dead. Its music. People die. Instead of debating about what makes hip hop, we should be debating things that really matter. I heard the debate between Monie & Jeezy and I have to side with Monie, because she was the only person in the room that actually debated like an adult. For Jeezy to say, that someone aint in the streets, and never “busted no guns” – that they dont know hip hop, is absurd. In a room full of intelligent people he would be invisible. He would have no point, nothing interesting to say. If you have EVER actually busted your guns and sold drugs, please tell me what is it to be proud of? So you need to be a fricking violent criminal to make music, cuz thats what thugs do? I’m confused.I thought thugs robbed and killed people for a living?! So many rappers contradict themselves and our kids dont know the difference. If you are selling drugs and its such a lucrative gig, then why make music. If the ghetto is no nice, why you wanna leave? I digress. My point is simple, I have never heard any white artist arguing over who’s rock n roll is best, or whose city is the best. People, its only music. Its popular, it sells and the world loves it. Isnt that enough? Honestly, where will “YOUNG( aint nothing young about him) Jeezy be in 10 years? ummm. yeah.
Hip Hip is dead. Rap is in full effect.
@UKNOW
“Hip Hip is dead. Rap is in full effect.”
It hurts cause it’s true.
I have been around Hip Hop for a while myself..I was raised on alot of Gospel and RnB..I remember being 9 or ten listening to George Michael and Michael jackson and hearing 1 rap song on the top 40..I had heard songs like supersonic and I need love and I liked the concept of songs with feeling…Hip Hop has changed drastically as it should…I would not be listening to NWA or anything that came out back in the day right now..Only serves as a memory ..I remember kid and play and Fresh prince was the hottest s…going..I copied the lifestyle High top fades, lines in the eyebrow and all but with time comes change. I always looked at hip hop as an art form, a way to express ur self to a beat and as a producer now I still love hip hop..just like man evolved from walking the deserts of Jesus’ time and riding camels to driving bentlys and flying leers. Hip Hop is not dead it just produced a son….Who will in turn produce another seed…
…….young jeezy is just butt, period. he has no flows, no rhymes, no intelligence, no respect, no grace, no skillz, and like school on a sunday……he has no class…
Young Jeezy needs to shut his 5th grade educated ass the fuck up. Who gives a shut if Nas is “in the streets” or has friends in the feds?!?!? That is coon sh*t!!!! Why would your crack baby ass try to brag about that. Jeezy is everything that is wrong with hip hop.
Nas brought the streets of QB to the world like none other. Allow a man to grow. WE NEED GROWN MEN IN HIP HOP.He can’t beef with Nas but rather beef with Nas’s album title.
Take everything ignorant, mysogynistic, callous, shallow, and materialistic about rap, and stick it in an illiterate, moronic package, and you’ll have Young Jeezy, the sad personification of EVERYTHING wrong with Hip-Hop.