D.A.R.E.
If you put any group of able bodied, nubile, young to “professional” (which is my catch all for not quite 30 but older than 24 and able to read and more than likely pre-marriage/family) adults of mixed gender in a room together, two conversations will undoubtedly arise: sex and relationships.
It’s written in the DNA of every newborn that around the early to mid-twenties, all of us have to discuss these things. If it’s a group of black “professionals”, then the conversation will go to how much black men suck and how there are no good black men out there causing some poor misguided male soul to utter “well that’s why we date white women” causing a ruckus and lots of hissing and if not contained properly will result in objects being thrown about leading to the ultimate demise of that one antique item that has been passed down from generation to generation in somebody’s family causing further dismay, becuase it’s an antique and shit, forcing folks to get kicked out Martin style (wzup!).
This is just my interpretation, of the situation.
And for good measure, now who else wanna fuck with Hollywood Court?
But before the melee and after the hors d’ouevres (because us young urban professionals always have hors d’ouevres, though if you come to my house it’s chips and maybe some Cheez-Its), one question always arises as well:
Can men and women truly be just friends?
Oh yes, the old platonic friends question is sure to come up at some point. Me and my boy Johnny Kwest argue about this all the time. I contend that it is possible for men and women to be just friends, even at this age. He thinks otherwise.
I use myself and my female friends as examples.
He uses me and my female friends as examples.
*scratching head*
Needless to say, I often lose these arguments. I mean, how can you really win an argument when you’re being used against yourself…and you’re your best defense???
Somebody’s going to have to re-read that a few times. It’s okay, we’ll work on colors tomorrow.
Well I’m not going to discuss whether or not men and women can be platonic friends or not. I have platonic female friends but my boy has made some very compelling arguments as to why these platonic relationships exist. Doesn’t make them any less platonic, but I do understand that a lot of these relationships exist as they do due to circumstance.
But fuck that, Panama has platonic female friends.
However, having platonic female friends SHOULD mean that all rules of overly-intimate contact and the like are in place and nothing of romantic or overly flirtatious nature SHOULD exist.
Well, I’ll be the first to tell you that, umm, very seldom is that the case. In fact, I’m probably part of a group of Platonic Friends ‘R Us that could be a considered a habitual over the line-stepper. And it’s not usually me…well not always anyway. Apparently, just because you are just-friends, doesn’t mean that flirting and playful touchyfeely is out of bounds.
Then again, it never happens with folks you don’t find attractive (if you can help it). Which begs the question, if you find somebody attractive (but aren’t necessarily attracted to them), and you are friends…does anybody hear it?
Oops…I mean, are they platonic?
And this is what I’d like to delve into. Certain behaviors, anyway. I remember when I was in elementary and middle school, we used to have the D.A.R.E. officers come through and tell us about the dangers of drug use. D.A.R.E. to keep our kids off drugs, they’d say.
Do you remember McGruff the Crime Dog? Take a bite out of crime. He must have retired, because crime is up in DC.
Well, do you also remember the Department of Transportation’s drunk driving campaign? Friends Don’t Let Friends Drive Drunk?
Well, I think we need to discuss, in the realm of platonic friends, things that friends don’t let other friends do…
AND YOU SAY HE’S JUST A FRIEND: THINGS THAT FRIENDS DON’T LET OTHER FRIENDS DO, EVEN WHILE WATCHING FRIENDS
1. Friends don’t let friends give eachother backrubs.
This has been a point of discussion for me and some friends over the past few weeks. Sides have been drawn, arguments have been made, and policy decisions have been completely disregarded. It’s like the Bush Administration all over again. Let’s be frank here, by a show of hands, how many people have ever had an innocent backrub from a person of the opposite sex, that wasn’t paid for using cash or a credit card??
*crickets*
Shit how many people would ask a “random” person that they wouldn’t think of in an impure manner, to put their hands all over their body in hopes of easing some tension or releasing some stress?
Hell, who doesn’t think of sex when they think of easing tension or releasing stress????
Skin-on-skin (basically hand to back) backrubs are purposeful. It’s just like the book, Purpose Driven Life. Backrubs? Purpose Driven Action. It’s too sensual and the back is a very sensual place. You get to rubbing and shit and who ISN’T going to get all randy? I remember a long time ago, I was talking to this chick and anytime we’d be at her home and she needed a way to say, “hey Panama, I’d like some right now…what do you think?”, she’d just ask me for a “back-rub”.
Now, if you give folks a backrub and you don’t go up under their shirt…well you’re clearly not trying to start anything and that’s “safe”.
Here’s a simple rule of thumb. If your sister/brother can’t do it, then maybe it isn’t so…”friend-friendly”.
I’m just saying, back-rubs are treading dangerous territory.
2. Friends don’t let friends kiss on the lips.
You’d THINK this would be self-explanatory. Hell, Europeans, who are all kissyface, at least kiss on the cheeks. But do you know I know some folks who consider themselves to be platonic friends actually kiss on the lips.
Platonic friends my ass.
I know you see it…I know you see it…
Lip-to-lip action, just doesn’t make any sense to me, if you’re just friends. If you get the pleasure of touching my lips, you’d probably get the pleasure of some NFL kick-off action. *wink**wink* Know what I mean??
Speaking of the NFL, Nick Saban, head coach of the Miami Dolphins, is an idiot. Thank you.
And since we’re talking about idiotic things…
3. Friends don’t let friends sleep with eachother.
Oy vey!
We can add, or touch people in their special places to that as well.
Fellas…if you EVER meet a woman who tells you she can have sex with you with no strings attached…throw something at her and run like hell. She’s lying. No matter how much she tries to convine you she can, she’s a liar.
LIAR. Only a select few women can do this, and you know what? They’ll probably have your ass sprung. Yessir, she will turn you into a woman.
I just don’t think you can be a platonic friend and sleep with your friends. It just doesn’t make sense. Sure, we all have our moments of weakness, but you have them with folks you’ve thought about in vertical terms. If you go to thinking about your friends in vertical terms, it seems counterintuitive to think that they’re actual platonic friends. Sure, you may make strides to keep the relationship platonic by going out of your way to respect the rules of space, time, and Soul Train, but in all truth…when it comes to mental sexnastics, if you think it, you will drink it.
Kool-Aid that is.
And yes, I just wanted to say that.
Do it. Do it.
Just don’t sleep with your friends, mmkay.
Live and learn. Call me Joe Public.
4. Friends don’t let friends hold eachother while sleeping.
Now this one gets tricky. I believe that a man and a woman can sleep in a bed together and not touch eachother and it be all good. Hell, I’ve done it. It’s easier than it sounds. But if one person goes all cuddling up to the other one in the middle of the night and wants to be held and shit, I’m raising a red flag. Holding and being all up under folks is a prime way for feelings to develop. And you wouldn’t just snuggle up to Ray-Ray from 18th Street, now would you? Nope, somebody you truly trust and care about…and if you truly trust and care about them and are all arm locked and wake up and look into eachother’s eyes and smile and then discuss going to the zoo to look at furry and fuzzy animals or God forbid, go feed ducks together…well, your platonicity is at stake, pimpin’.
It was written.
Besides, that cuddling shit leads to sex. See #3.
5. Friends don’t let friends hate on other love interests and relationships.
If you are truly platonic friends, you’ll be happy when your friend meets somebody new that they are really interested in.
We’ve all seen it happen. Some dynamic due of platonicity hangs tough and swears that there’s nothing going on until one of them meets somebody else. All of a sudden they can’t stop talking about how fucked up it is that things are going the way they are…then somebody throws around the, “they should have known I liked them, even though we never talked about it…”
Basically, the non-sense and bullshit starts flying like black folks with reparations checks.
If you got beef, then clearly you need to re-evaluate their place in your life. If your friend tells you that they met somebody at the mall and you automatically call her a ho, you just might not be platonic. If you meet somebody at a library, and you tell your “friend” and he calls the new dude a pussy for reading…you just might not be platonic.
If you both meet somebody new and then fight? Just might not be platonic and you probably broke rule #3.
Which means you aren’t platonic anyway, because…the bottom line is…
Friends don’t let friends break friend rules.
It was written.
September 8th, 2006 12:09
my dear Panama. This was very enlightening. I always thought that my platonic friendship with this dude from back home was textbook. Come to find out he was harboring feelings about me. He attempted to kiss me and I sort of got weirded out. It took a minute for us to recover, but I thought we did. Then he got ghost again. So I just let it ride and found a new great guy friend *smile* ..Anywhoo, He called me this weekend and told me he is engaged. Now, I was hurt because a) I hadn’t heard from him in months, and I missed all the, “I have met the one” talks and b) he somehow managed to tell the woman all about me and I don’t know jack about her. I am extremely happy he met someone, but I am miffed that I missed being in the loop. DO you think he didn’t tell me because of the former feelings (I am pretty sure he got pass those, damn,I hope he did). I would ask him myself but I don’t want him to think that I am not happy for him or that I am jealous. Your thoughts?
September 8th, 2006 12:16
@BPD: Yeah, he probably didn’t tell you just in case it didn’t work out for him. I mean, if he’s in love with you, why jeopardize the potential of you two in the future by telling you about some woman he’s dating.
The right hand has no business knowing what the left hand is doing.
You know, you can ask him, but you should be ready for him to read more into it…possibly. Or give you an answer that is completely asinine. I would say that if you all were really friends you could ask…but then again…
…you wouldn’t have these questions if you guys were, now would you?
September 8th, 2006 12:17
LOL… every time you say “throw something at her” I crack up. Throwing stuff at people is right up there with kicking them in the ankle or knees for me. Love it.
By the way, good guidelines too.
September 8th, 2006 12:18
Good rules! I will be sure to shrink them and laminate them so I can keep them in my wallet! HA!
Anyway, what about when friends of the “plutonic dynamic duo” try to force the duo into a relationship because they think they will make such a great couple? Can we make a rule for those other friends to shut the hell up and mind their business? And will you address the awkwardness of friends that have hooked up and no longer get along and how that affects the whole friend group?
September 8th, 2006 12:26
those are some great questions Cool AC..and Panama, you know I am interested to see your responses (for research purposes). We will be waiting, thanks.
September 8th, 2006 12:31
When the man speaks from experience, he SPEAKS!! Hell yeah, Pot!! He called you black!! And what!? Do something! Bet you won’t step across that line! Bet you won’t knock this stick off his shoulder! Yeah! Thought so!
September 8th, 2006 12:31
@AC: You know, that was almost going to be rule #6. Friends don’t let friends friends talk you into doing some shit that you don’t want to do because it seems right. That is a death knell for so many friendships.
I’ve been there. I feel like if the friends don’t discover that they want to be together on their own, then anything else will be awkward and might cause problems. So yes, friends of the “friends” need to shut the hell up and leave well enough, alone.
Throw something at them.
Now when friends hookup then breakup (in anyway)…well, that can be a doozy…trust me. It can get ugly and sadly, all I can say is that it takes time for everybody involved (including the outside friends) to get to a point where everybody can deal with eachother. Stuff like that causes friends to have to take sides, which is never a good thing, and further requires people to hang separately and do their best to not speak ill or be involved in ill convos.
It is the epitome of Tyrone Hill. Tyrone Hill = one ugly mofo.
I think that if two friends are seriously considering getting together there needs to be a intervention upfront with them to make sure they know what they’re getting into and that they’d better be prepared to act right and get married as to save the group as a whole.
Okay, not really…but how much better would the world be if that was the case?
September 8th, 2006 12:32
Calling BS on the massage thing. I’ve both given and received platonic massages. But this begs the question, how are you defining “platonic”? If your definition excludes any relationship where either party would ever even consider sex, then virtually no male/female relationship is platonic!! I say that platonic friendships include those in which sex/romance is MUTUALLY understood to be a non-issue.
September 8th, 2006 12:40
Agreed. I don’t have male friends. Never have and accept I never will. I think I learned it first in seventh grade. Then later on one of my dearest male ‘friend’s told me, with regards to the crew of girls he and his boys were ‘friends’ with,”Look. Don’t for one minute think we wouldn’t all f*ck y’all if givine the chance. I’m just saying. We’re not blood related.” So then what is it when men and owmen hang but someone decides none of th rules will be broken? Frociates. Friends + Associate - Ends/Ass = Frociate
September 8th, 2006 12:41
It can’t happen, panama. you can be close friends, but, platonic, if you look at the definition of the term…
free from sensual desire, esp. in a relationship between two persons of the opposite sex
…just doesnt fit.
September 8th, 2006 12:45
@Niki: You know, I’d agree with your MUTUALLY understood definition, but therein lies the rub. It’s usually mutually understood b/c both parties maintain a healthy distance from doing anything that might cause anybody to overthink their standing. Basically, nothing that could be deemed romantic is broached, intentionally.
And this assumes that both people are reasonably attractive and under any other circumstance would probably jump eachother bones.
But go getting touchy feely and shit, next thing you know folks get to thinking and then awkward conversations and voila…
…Cuba.
September 8th, 2006 12:52
@DYoung: You’re probably right. I’ve tried relentlessly to prove that men and women can be platonic friends and the only way its worked out is what you wrote about before, and one way platonicity.
What’s one way platonicity? Well, I might have a female friend who i’m not interested in any way shape or form but perhaps she is interested in me, or would be. Or vice versa.
Unless neither of us is interested…which means we met in college in class or some shit. As you said before in your prior post.
September 8th, 2006 12:53
@ Panama–
But don’t you think you are failing to consider situations in which the two involved are mature enough to respect the friendship they share over any potential romance? When you really reach that point, you don’t have to make a conscious decision to avoid the romantic things. In fact, you can do things that might be considered romantic in another forum–giving massages, even.
September 8th, 2006 12:57
@Nikiwhosthinkingshesmaintainingherloveliness: Let me ask you this…say these two people have reached this respect level where they can do these things that on the surface would seem to be leading to something else. Does this level of respect merely stop them from pursuing some shit they’d both be okay with? Like a back rub that seems to go a little to far that leads to sex?? What happens then? Still platonic?? If both parties would be okay with shit happeneing but just aren’t doing anything about it, out of respect…how do we classify that? Or is that the very point of your platonic definition?
September 8th, 2006 13:02
does it really need a label though? Either you are tryna screw each other or not, isn’t it that simple?
September 8th, 2006 13:04
@ Panama
Well NO. Once you have sex, you are no longer platonic. And the fact that you asked just explained so VERY much.
However, the fact a relationship can or does reach a point where you no longer respect the platonic nature thereof does not belie the fact that it existed as such. The caterpillar just emerged from the cocoon. < Just realized how close to a pun that was.
September 8th, 2006 13:07
Also, we are forgetting that sometimes, exes can be friends. Can’t they?
September 8th, 2006 13:17
@Nikilikeforrealwhatisthisthingcalledlove: I guess I’m making the distinction between sex being a non-issue (mutually understood) versus sex just not happening b/c out of respect, nobody has broached it, but one backrub too many and then GEORGE MICHAEL!
“where are my panties…he gonna think im a ho”
And sometimes exes can be friends, this is true, but at what point do we declare those as platonic? Because quite clearly in most situations, that must take quite a while to get to the point where neither party is interested AND they actually begin speak to eachother…
…30 years from now.
September 8th, 2006 14:26
First I’d like to say that I appreciate Niki.
Void of definitions, labels and classifications, I think that if two friends agree on what won’t ensue after said actions, then it won’t. Bottom line.
And friends should never be denied a backrub bc of these “guidelines’ if lines of respect have been est. I understand the generalizations, but those can become too simple. Paricular relationships should be evaluated and upon evaluation, denial should or should not occur.
September 8th, 2006 15:36
lol. I’m really feeling the Foxworthy-esque spiel:
“If you got beef, then clearly you need to re-evaluate their place in your life. If your friend tells you that they met somebody at the mall and you automatically call her a ho, you just might not be platonic…”
You clearly need to expand the list.
Good stuff…I offer no opinion, (it would take too long and it’s Friday, lol). So um, Toodles.
T
September 8th, 2006 15:37
You know what Panama? You always post these life lessons and advice a litle too late for my ass. Now I’m in a situation where a girl has feelings for me and we started off as “friends”. And that sleeping with each other thing… yeah… don’t cuddle with the “friend”. Take it from me.
September 11th, 2006 07:13
I learned early in life that I can not be “platonic friends” with a female I am physically attracted to…It just can not happen. I am going to try her at some point. Therefore I have several platonic female friends who I am just not physically attracted to..It works for me..
I refuse to believe that a male and female who have some sort of physical attraction to one another can be platonic friends…One of them or both of them are going to eventually catch feelings.
September 11th, 2006 11:08
Great post, and so true. A friend of mine gave me a backrub, and I did one for him as well, and I have to say I feel like our ‘friendship’ has a heightened sexual tension ever since!
September 11th, 2006 13:14
Love the rules… they are seriously on point. I think to sum it up you can say, “If you’re heterosexual and wouldn’t let your SAME SEX friend do it… then you’re crossing the line.” Period. LOL Picture Pamela, or Sheron, or Tiff rubbing my damn back, or cuddling up to me as I sleep. Negro please. ROFLMAO People kill me doing shyt like that and then feigning ignorance and throwing it under the guise of “just friendship.” *rolling eyes*
September 13th, 2006 18:00
“Picture Pamela, or Sheron, or Tiff rubbing my damn back, or cuddling up to me as I sleep.”
Just reading about women touching each other makes me crazy. I need to hurry uo and go home…