Black Culture In Decline?: It’s Bigger Than A Hip Hop
[***This post references an editorial in the Baltimore Sun entitled, "How Hip Hop Brings Down Black Culture" from March 23, 2005. If you can't direct link to it, go to www.baltimoresun.com, then to the Op/Ed section and the article is available if you scroll. Registration is not needed.***]
There are many things that bother me in life.
The programming on BET is one thing, because there really is no excuse for an entire networks programming to be THAT bad. Another thing that bothers me is white people trying to act “black” (and you know exactly what I mean, so I don’t want to hear that ‘what is acting black’? shit) and doing a horrible job at it, making me feel more like I’m being mocked than emulated.
But what really bothers me is black people who claim hip-hop is the root of problems in the black community, yet use claims that clearly indicate that they don’t know jack shit about what hip-hop really is. The same bastards who watch CNN and see a name like 50 Cent or Snoop and see that they were found with an ounce of weed, and assume that all rappers are drug-dealing criminals with nothing to offer society and are at best, bringing down black culture.
And with that, I’d like to send an extra special fuck you out to one Wendell Talley who submitted an editorial to the Baltimore Sun entitled, “How Hip-Hop Drags Down Black Culture.” Wendell, Mr. Talley, my mellow my man, hip-hop isn’t what’s dragging down black culture…
…you are.
Yes you and your followers. The black people who act as if they don’t understand social rebellion. Hell, the same bastards who assume that all rap IS social rebellion and clearly haven’t been listening to the complaints of the hip-hop generation that none of the music even REPRESENTS social rebellion anymore and is too swept up in creating false images of money, misogyny, and prosperity.
Yes you, the same fucker who in his article claims that after the Civil Rights movement, blacks who felt hatred towards anything white, left behind values such as: morality, scholarship, entreprenuership, and personal accountability, yet FAIL to even understand that many rappers not only rap but own businesses, have foundations catered to making lives better for others who have come from where they’ve come from, have scholarship funds set aside for children that they don’t even know in hopes that they will succeed in life, and who will tell you in their own rhymes to not follow in their footseps, but to be better than them.
I just don’t understand it sometimes. I don’t understand how a black person couldn’t understand the need for a voice that comes from where many of us have come from. Truthfully, everybody hasn’t lived a hard knock life. Every black person isn’t from the projects nor is every black person poor and destitute. Then again, every black person isn’t rich or doing great either. A lot of people live check to check. A lot of people have come from circumstances that most of us only read about in the news. So why shouldn’t a group of individuals who never get a chance to be heard in Congress or in the places where people make decisions utilize the one means that EVERYBODY is listening to right now??
People say don’t judge a book by its cover. Yet we all do it. People say don’t judge other people, but we all do it. It’s a human tendency. However, judging an entire culture based on what you hear and see on television from time to time isn’t only ignorant as shit, its dangerous. These same bastards who do this, are the ones with access to large-scale media who would love nothing more than to hear a black man blame the problems of the black community on rap and hip-hop.
Jerome was selling drugs?? Blame 50 Cent…he talks about drugs in his songs. It’s so funny how people can be so easy to blame music, yet fail to even ATTEMPT to understand where the messages in the music come from. For the record, Jerome isn’t selling drugs because of 50 Cent, he’s selling drugs because he’s broke and McDonald’s doesn’t pay enough. And I’m not saying that there is an excuse for selling drugs, or even condoning the practice, but hell, the music doesn’t cause anybody to sell drugs. The demand for drugs causes people to sell drugs.
In fact…QUIT BLAMING THE FUCKING MUSIC. Blame the conditions for which the music was created in. Don’t assume that because you came up in the best of circumstances that other people did too. This isn’t to say that all of the music is positive. Clearly it isn’t. But it’s also not to blame for the ills of the black community. Blaming hip-hop is just creating a scapegoat. A scapegoat intended to stop people from looking in the mirror and realizing that they might not have been paying enough attention to their children or might not have been doing all that they could to make sure their child succeeds in life.
It’s so easy to blame other people for your own shit. And to claim that hip-hop is dragging down black culture is doing exactly that. Mr. Talley claims that hip-hop isn’t a voice. Well he’s wrong. The problem is, its a voice of a people he doesn’t accept. It’s also a voice for a people he doesn’t think needs one. It’s the voice of the immoral, the men and women who bastardize black culture and turn it into a travelling sideshow. Actually, fucker, its a voice for people who have shit to say and nowhere else to say it.
He even goes so far as to claim that hip-hop embarasses black people as a whole. I’m sorry, Mr. Talley, that the stories of your brothers and sisters embarsses you and casts negative images of who you are as a person onto the society at large. Hip-hop doesn’t demean or embarass me. Does hip-hop have its problems?? Hell yes. The thing is, as a part of the culture, I know that all rap doesn’t negatively stereotype women, or talk about drugs or guns. Some of it does, and I’ll make no excuses for it. Instead of being solely pissed at that though, somebody needs to be pissed and figure out why THAT is the music we latch onto the most and make the most popular.
Mr. Talley, and anybody who thinks like he does, reminds me of assholes(similar to Bill O’Reilly) who learn everything about black culture via the television and videos. They see that anytime a rapper is mentioned on a station aside from BET, MTV, or vh1, its for some type of crime or reference to a crime, or because some corporation is willing to pay one of these thugs for his bad behavior. They fail to realize, nor do they even care, that hip-hop exists outside of crime and that the hip-hop community has done many positive things. Nope…all they go on is what they assume they heard or what they assume they saw. Circumstances?? Irrelevant. All they know is that a rapper did something wrong.
Fuck ‘em.
So you see it’s not hip-hop that is destroying black culture, its ignorant people like Mr. Talley and his ilk, that don’t know anything about hip-hop speaking on it to the people that know nothing about it. It’s the blind leading the blind. The problem is that the blind in this case don’t know that you can’t see.
That’s whats dragging down black culture, intentional ignorance. They say an educated black man is a dangerous thing. Well I say that an educated black man that doesn’t get it is more dangerous.
Because that’s the fool you’ll hear.
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Mr. Tickle, I usually enjoy reading your insights on human behavior however this most recent post is the worst rebuttal I’ve ever read. Your defense of the “worst” our community has to offer is repulsive. You should have tried to find what was right about Mr. Talleys arguments and wrote about how we, as hip-hop consumers, can change the negative images that are so pervasive in the culture. As a black female I am soooo tired of the booty-shakin’, good for nothing, hoochie mama, drama queen image given to us. You really need to look at the overall hip-hop is a debasement to black culture arguement from a new perspective. Look deeper into the issue than with just your emotions. To quote Incubus “Perspective pries your once weighty eyes and it gives wings”
My mistake the correct quote from Incubus is
“Perspective pries your once weighty eyes and it gives you wings” — song title: Nice To Know You
The “negative images so pervasive in the culture” have existed since race was codified in the 17th century. Rap is only a mirror of the damage the original portrait has done. Changing the music will not change the landscape. Rap could die tomorrow, black women would still be perceived as hoochie-mamas, drama queens,etc.
It’s funny that the same arguments posed about rap nowadays were used to criticize jazz at the beginning of the 20th century. (Remember “the devil’s music”?) As long as is it’s poor, black folks singin it, YT and comfy, house negros are going to inveigh against, not out of love, but out of fear that we riff-raff have something that they can’t take over or subjugate. The rebellious nature of the art always portends the threat of real rebellion. YT ain’t havin that and neither is McWhorter and his boys because when the revolution comes, where do the sellouts go? Where do the cheerleaders go when there is no team?
In closing, what’s wrong with booty shaking? It’s an African tradition. All Africans in the diaspora do it, damn well, better than any other group on the planet, if I may add. It’s a part of who we are. If white chicks had asses worth mentioning and any rhythm too boot, they would probably show off too. Then the sellouts would hold them high as models for behavior and mock us jigaboos for not learning “high culture.”
OOO OOO…one more thing! All this rap bashing is an obvious smoke screen for real policy and systemic problem sellouts and conservatives perpetuate, e.g. unemployment, poor job security, job discrimination, poor housing, government mismanagement, blah blah blah. Why blame 50 for rapping about the drug game and fail to mention that the NYPD is a source of the illicit narcotics trade in NY. Ask Amnesty International.
Everybody quick to point the fuckin finger at everyone but THE MAN!
Hmm..Interesting post to say the least. Before I respond, Allow me to ask. What positive things has the hip hop community done? no really i have no idea, and im asking in hopes that you may be able to school me.
” Another thing that bothers me is white people trying to act “black” (and you know exactly what I mean, so I don’t want to hear that ‘what is acting black’? shit) and doing a horrible job at it, making me feel more like I’m being mocked than emulated.”
Sigh. Why do i even bother? that line said it all. Act black? WTF??? how the hell do you act black? is there some memo i missed out on? i had no idea that africans, african americans, afro latinos, afro caribbeans, afro asians all possessed the same traits that you labelled as “acting black”. WTF? man are you for real?
“It’s also a voice for a people he doesn’t think needs one. It’s the voice of the immoral, the men and women who bastardize black culture and turn it into a travelling sideshow. Actually, fucker, its a voice for people who have shit to say and nowhere else to say it. ”
Shit to say like what? I got hoes in different area codes, or maybe how we aint gangstas cause we never really popped none? lol. Dont get me wrong, there is definitely positive hip hop out there, but you don’t see the talib kweli’s of the world on rotation on mtv, ask yourself why my friend, because the world doesnt want to see black people with shit to say. they wanna see the bojangles of the world. look music is artistic expression, if you choose to speak about the coachroaches in you’re apartment, more power to you, do ur thang, I just have a fucking problem when every single one of these imbeciles want to talk about the same shit, garbage. I dont wanna hear about how u do ur “hoes”. you have the spotlight, say something of substance or move the fuck on.
“I don’t understand how a black person couldn’t understand the need for a voice that comes from where many of us have come from. Truthfully, everybody hasn’t lived a hard knock life. Every black person isn’t from the projects nor is every black person poor and destitute.”
do you really believe that the whole “gangsta” persona these rappers glorify is actually real? how do you know 50 cent is not a yale graduate with a 4.0 average? wake up, big corporations create the persona for these artists, because they know people like you will eat it up. They pay for the platinum chains, and lavish lifestyles, so people such as yourself can be mesmerized, and think ,”wowwwww he can from nothing and now look at him, he has big booty girls and chains” GIVE ME A BREAK.
No one is saying blame the music, but when the music offers nothing of value to our community, then we will call on it, you can continue to enjoy the ying yang twins of the world. see thats the beauty of a democracy my friend.
“yet FAIL to even understand that many rappers not only rap but own businesses, have foundations catered to making lives better for others who have come from where they’ve come from, have scholarship funds set aside for children that they don’t even know in hopes that they will succeed in life, and who will tell you in their own rhymes to not follow in their footseps, but to be better than them”
Are you fucking kidding me? What fucking businesses? A clothing line? you seem to think these artists have actual buying power, all the so called businesses they own, is owned by the powers that be, just because 50 cent comes out with a reebok line doesnt mean skwat! because at the end of the day, its a obese 50 yr old white man that owns it all.
And these so called charities you speak of, i say Bull fucking shit. How the hell do you preach violence, glorify all the ills of our society, degrade our black queens, then open a ronald mcdonald house?Do you not see the irony in that?
Kids from the ghettos of america live in poverty daily, and when they see a successful black man, they are bombarded with images of 50cent, snoop, and all these entertainers, how the hell is that not influencing them?
to quote a chris rock , forgive me in advance for not saying it right,” there are two types of black people : black people and niggers,” modern day hip hop artists are Niggers. Yea I said it. Its bastards like them that give us all a bad name. Why is it that when one of these ignaramouses is given a little mula the first thing they think of is a chain? Yet a 10 yr old white kid starts investing by the time he’s in the 5th grade.
Wake the Fuck Up.
Wow. Everybody is so heated.
I agree with most of the comments. I listen to hip hop. The beats tend to be catchy..it sounds good to my ear. However, when I listen to the lyrics, they tend to be very similar in content, and they do NOT send a positive message.(in general). Everybody knows that kids now days hear this stuff, and take it in. These are their role models..What you like is what you listen to and think is cool. Whoever you think is cool is probably who you want to be like. (speaking for the kids, not adults) I think the key problem is the content of hip hop is desensitizing our youth. I see booty shakin as detracting from a woman’s innocence. It’s like she is sayin, “hey! Look at me! This is what I look like when I f*ck!” That is the truth. That’s why men like it so much. Talking about gold? give me that p*ssy? shakin it? all that. It is not helping our youth. I would wager to say it is perpetuating a mentality. A materialistic, shallow, sexually immoral mentality. It’s frightening.
I’m gonna put my two cents in by saying that I absolutely appreciated this post. I think that most people that weigh in on the argument claim to “know hip hop”, but really continue to miss the point of just what you were saying. It has absolutely nothing to do with Hip Hop. Read Blues People by Leroi Jones. We cannot continue to blame music for the failures of our community. It just doesn’t make sense. And we cannot continue to pretend that Hip Hop is the “pimps up hoes down booty shaking gun toting drug dealing” shit that we hear on the radios. Hip Hop is what it is today because it is embraced by a culture that is not “us”. So the have nots have learned that if you tell YT what he wants to hear, he’ll be your biggest consumer. Meanwhile, the rest of the blacks complain about how the music is killing the race but would not dear to step of our comfortable suburban perches to venture out into the hood to find the children that are being tainted by RAP music and help them understand that there is another way. We would just rather get mad when they find a hustle that we didn’t have enough balls to get down with and then blame it on the music. And in the mean time, shit just gets worse and the music keeps on playing. When are we gonna stop blaming things and start to really claim responsibility for what is happening in our communities?
Perhaps another Roundtable Meeting is in Order
Quite like “The State of the Black Male in America”
I find that people like to sit back and tell others what their problems are. The best thing we can do is turn the mirror on ourselves. The generation before us can sit and wag a finger of blame all they want. All without once accepting that they made us and that the culture that exists today is an extension of what it was when they were our age.
Kajuana hit it on the head. We have to look deeper than just the situations that we are presented with. We have to look at how we got to where we are and why in the hell we are still there. We have to look at why other cultures don’t have this same problem and probable solutions to solve it.
As far as rap…Most of that shit today is such garbage. I think a big problem is with labels and genre. Everything gets lumped in one big ass “hip-hop/rap/black music” category when, in reality, the shit is different in every way from origin to purpose.
Panama, I see where you are coming from. It’s a deeply rooted problem and I appreciate your view on it.
another example of what true hip-hop and real culture ISN’T – http://www.allhiphop.com/hiphopnews/?ID=4240
Amen, Infamous Skeptic! Enough Said.
Wow, folks seem to have some strong opinions on this one, so I’ll respond in kind to each one, in the tone in which I was responded too, mmkay??
Ms. Joseph: I find it interesting that you feel like “rappers” and current hiphop is the worst our community has to offer. Like honestly, I think sometimes, you all just don’t get it. Just because you see it on TV doesn’t mean that is what hip hop is. I said in the joint I wrote that the community often complains about that kind of thing. Problem is, complaining only goes so far.
If you don’t like it, listen to the real hiphop that’s out there and pay attention to the culture as a whole. It’s not just 50, Snoop, or Nelly. There are lot’s of other rappers out there that you probably don’t know about. But people refuse to do any research or expand their horizons and just take whats given to them as the status quo. They’ll go out and find the newest neo-soul artist in obscurity but just take rap as its handed to them. I say turn off the damn TV and quit buying that music if it offends you. But you know what, and I don’t know you so I’m not speaking to you in particular, but those same folks that criticize are the first ones reciting the lyrics and everything up in the club. You DON’T have to watch/listen to it. Turn off the radio!!! Change the damn channel.
Anybody who choses to solely blame the music without looking at everything else going on is just like the guy in the article to me…out of touch with what hip hop really is and just assumes its what they are spoonfed on TV or on the radio. The culture as a whole isn’t Nelly, but some people just can’t believe that.
Hip hop has many problems. There is a lot of misogyny, and a lot of selling false images. I admitted that and will do so again. And I don’t like it all either. But that’s not all there is to it. If you think that the Ying Yang Twins is all there is out there and that represents hip-hop to you, then maybe you need to revisit whether or not we’re even talking about the same thing.
To the Infamous Skeptic:
Are you fuckin’ kidding ME???? Since you had SO much to say and I seem to be so full of shit, I’m going to take the time to respond to you in full. Thanks doggy…you made my day.
You know, I love when folks really trash hip-hop, then while reading their trashing you realize a simple fact. Dog, you just don’t get it. You’re just like everybody else who claims to be a fan but really ain’t shit but a casual fan who just takes what’s given to them. I’m not even sure how to respond to your first question about what the hip hop community has done positive since the built in assumption is that the hiphop community does nothing. If that’s your opinion, then you are proving my point. I’m not saying that the hip-hop community has built hospitals, but neither have I. If rappers donating computers like Fat Joe to schools, or leading voting movements (regardless of impact cuz you can blame APATHY more than anything for our lack of voting), or taking a stand against drug laws in NY that disproportionately lock up young black men as opposed to the real big fish putting the drugs in the community, or are like the HHSAN getting involved in school funding cuts…or hell just providing JOBS to individuals who need them, isn’t positive, then I don’t know what is. Has the community done all it could?? Maybe not…have you???
Let’s talk about this acting black thing for a second mmkay?? Why do you even bother?? I was asking myself the same question, doggy. You see, clearly, you didn’t get it. Seems to be your MO. When I say acting black, I’m talking about white people emulating THEIR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT BLACK IS. And if you are indeed black, you know what the hell I’m talking about. Or maybe you just need to go see Malibu’s Most Wanted or something. Get the fuck out of here with that.
You know I actually somewhat agree with you on one part about rappers saying the same shit over and over…to a point. I agree, a lot of the stuff you see ON TV is the same shit. But we keep buying it don’t we??? And demanding the shit. MAYBE WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHY THAT IS!!! Quit blaming these cats for giving you the shit you asked for. When they give you positive images what do you do with them…leave the bitches on the shelf and pick up Chingy. How many of you muhfuckas complaining about no positivity in rap bought Kweli’s last album?? I saw the damn Soundscan numbers…that’s right bucko…NONE OF YALL. Shit was on shelves right next to all that other shit you complain about. How many of you know who Blackalicious is?? That’s right NONE OF YALL. Casual ass fans who THINK they know whats up but when given the opportunity to LISTEN to the positive shit you opt for 50, THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.
“Are you fucking kidding me? What fucking businesses? A clothing line?”-Ignant negro AKA Infamous Skeptic
See NOW we are getting somewhere. THIS is a problem in the black community. A rapper starts a clothing line and you’re knocking his hustle. If the shit belogns to him why you downplaying the dudes hustle?? Uplift it. But nope…THAT’S what we do, hate. Crabs in a barrel. And we choose to blame rappers for whats wrong?? Look at you. Why you bringing the next man down?! If the man owns a business why cant we be happy for him?? Nope, we hate. To hell with blaming rappers, I’m blaming you and Mr. Talley since I’m starting to believe you are either him or his son.
“Nobody is saying blame the music.” Are you fuckin’ kidding me?? EVERYBODY blames the music. That’s the first response of everybody. Somebody got shot…well he was a Tupac fan!! People do it everyday. And let’s not bullshit either, the music is the most visual and apparent part of the culture today. So when you are blaming and complaining about hiphop you are essentially laying blame on the music.
And once again I agree with you about the contradiction in talking about shooting up niggas in the hood, then creating a Ronald McDonald House. However, they still created the damn Ronald McDonald’s house didn’t they?? Isn’t that still important??? Isn’t it needed?? And quit blaming everybody else for the fact that when you talk about successful folks you don’t turn anybody on to any doctors or lawyers. Turn off the damn TV and control what the fuck you’re kids are listening too. See, that’s what I don’t understand. Do we not CONTROL what our kids do and see?? You can’t watch them 24/7, but got dammit, when they are in your control, don’t just put them in front of the TV and let MTV or BET run rampant. Teach them that they can be lawyers. Tell them not to be a rapper…OWN A RAPPER. Got damn…why blame the rappers for making money they way they do when we pay them for the shit. Hell, at least SOMEBODY IS MAKING MONEY. I’m an economist, one more millionaire in the black community is better than none cuz at least it gives us somebody to use as a point of reference to say, see you CAN be rich.
If I need to wake the fuck up, then you and apparently, Anonymous Poster, need to get the fuck real, and realize that just cuz you see it on TV doesnt mean that’s all there is out there. Things ARE the way they are because YOU accept that shit as all there is out there. Then complain about it all. Clearly, there are problems in hiphop…but got damn, hiphop aint the problems of the black community…apparently doggy, YOU JUST DON’T GET IT.
Okay… *sigh* I clicked on the link and was reading the first sentence of the article… and stopped cold as soon as I saw Stanley Crouch’s name. I will not, and cannot read any more. LOL… Stanley Crouch, Armstrong Williams (aka Satan), Clarence Thomas and Nigger ahem… I mean Niger Innis and his daddy Roy… all need to be put on a boat and shipped out to the middle of the ocean. And left there. To die. *shaking head… then going back to retch my way through the article*
Wow…I don’t think I’ve ever read anything as self- hating as Mr. Talley’s assertion that “black culture “, in its entirety, is represented by the likes of 50 Cent.
It used to be that you could turn on the radio and listen for hours and never hear the same artist twice. Now? My wife and I have dubbed one station “50 Cent Radio” because of its penchant for playing three 50 songs an hour.
And therein lies the problem. Blaming 50 Cent or any other artist for making music that appeals to the lowest common denominator is like blaming the guy who drives the car with the sooty tailpipe for all the world’s air pollution. He’s far from the only one, and in the larger scheme of things? It doesn’t make much difference. I know a lot of people will be up in arms about that statement, but the truth is, 50′s 15- minute timer is at about 12:35 and counting.
The larger problem is these black folks who get ahold of a pen and space in a major newspaper like the Sun to say whatever they want and can’t find it in their hearts to utter a single good word about the rest of us. Okay, you don’t like the “hip-hop” culture. You don’t like bling and big -booty hoes. Okay, that’s fine. So why not find some of us who are doing it another way? Why not feature a single mom who is out there working two jobs to put her kids through private school? Or better yet, the men who are (like myself) happily married, employed, and not on the down low? You know, the ones you never hear about?
Well, we all know why that is. Mr. Talley didn’t have time to write that article because he doesn’t like what he sees staring back at him when he looks in the mirror in the morning. And that’s the biggest shame of all.
blame. blame. blame.
BLAME THE PARENTS WHO DON’T TEACH THEIR KIDS WHAT HIP HOP REALLY IS.
Everyone has a point! Sure, 50 could be a 4.0 graduate of Yale BUT would we know that! NO! why because THAT doesn’t sell records! The media only allows us to see what they feel we want — after a while well we want it! and if we don’t say different then they will continue to give it to us!
WE can change Hip Hop — IF we wanted to. Right now all we do is bitch and complain and continue to purchase the shit we bitch and complain about.
Either make a difference or TURN OFF THE DAMN TV/RADIO/COMPUTER/ETC.
I believe that it’s our responsibility as parents to explain to our kids that not all we see or hear is real. My son has been listening to hip hop since i can remember (not just biggie & snoop either; The Roots, Talib, Mos Def, LL, Busta, etc. shoot his fave was DMX!)and I have always taken the time out to explain to him that while it sounds “REAL” a lot of it isn’t and he has to understand that and be able to tell the difference. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have his moments when he refuses to believe but that just prompts me to REALLY get in his head and make him SEE!
Sure nowadays he ONLY wants to listen to Game or 50 but he also loves him some ole’skool hip hop and R&B (luther is his fave). Its all about US setting the example and teaching them. NOT the streets or the media.
WE ARE THE ROLE MODELS! PEOPLE! US!
*signing your blog in triplicate*
Well you already know I agree with you. I mean, when do I not? I don’t think you’ve ever written anything I couldn’t co-sign. Yet. You said it all…
Now we are getting somewhere, nothing i love more than a good debate.
Mr Panama, It seems like you’re the one that just doesnt get it. perhaps alesson in political science and the workings of the real world would be in order.
“If rappers donating computers like Fat Joe to schools, or leading voting movements (regardless of impact cuz you can blame APATHY more than anything for our lack of voting),”
LOL Voting Movements? Oh Boy. So you think that Pdiddy started his “Vote or Die” crap to uplift and educate our people about voting? BullFuckingShit. Here is where the political science quick course comes in. Political parties pay for people like pdiddy to come to your local neighborhoods and preach to you about the importance of voting my friend. Why do they choose rappers you ask? Because people like john kerry and company know that Individuals such as yourself would listen to LiL John preach about the importance of Voting, instead of someone like Cornell West. Give me a break. If u cant see through that so called voting movement, you’re far more blind than i thought. you are a marketing company’s Dream. You accept everysingle propaganda thrown you’re way, because you’re love for hip hop blinds you.
“How many of you muhfuckas complaining about no positivity in rap bought Kweli’s last album?? I saw the damn Soundscan numbers…that’s right bucko…NONE OF YALL”
Me Bucko. Thats right I bought his album. It seems like you haven’t read one word i said. I REPEAT NO ONE IS Blaming the music , Marilyn Manson has far more pervese and violent lyrics, yet you don’t see a whole generation of youth following him blindly. Don’t feed me this garbage about the good things the hip hop community does.
Look At Kanye west, maybe his whole socio-political approach is a marketing gimmick, none the less it was different and it had a message. and he sells. not that i’m a fan of him, i just bringing him up as a example to debunk your theory about how positive music doesnt sell. Why is it that Green day can came come out with a album targeting issues in America, yet still manage to sell millions, and win grammys. If we all say no to the 50 cent’s of the world, things can change. I expect better from the current state of hip hop,There is no more artistic expressions, its all manufactured garbage. you my friend can be content with it. This shit has gone on too long. No More shall we accept the garbage these record executives shove down our throats.
I don’t blame 50 cent, because he is not worthy of that much credit, I blame the imbeciles that eat his shit up. I just call on him, because he is the epitome of everything that is wrong with our community. No He is not responsible for someone picking up a gun and shooting up a store, gangs, or even drugs, but our admiration and praise for him, is a reflection of the problems we need to address.
Mr Panama, if you are a true fan of hiphop as u claim you are, you wouldn’t accept anything less than art from it. There Is nothing positive and “real” about modern day hip hop. These people are hijacking your culture and you’re allowing it. Its all Production by big white corporations. Their personas, their lyrics, their lifestyles . You Seem to be living in some sort of delusion, as if hip hop is a entity that belongs to our community, it use to. Not anymore. These big corporations are degrading you! Wake up Man.
Look at Burger King and mcdonalds commercials, why in the hell do they target black audiences? Arent u in the slightest bit offended by how they throw some black people in there with a hip hop beat in the background and try to sell it to u??
All companies have found the perfect demographic group. Us!
They just throw lloyd banks in there, and they are selling. You are being used and exploited through these rappers. U cant see that?? The so called money makers of hip hop are puppeteers of far larger corporations.
“However, they still created the damn Ronald McDonald’s house didn’t they?? Isn’t that still important??? Isn’t it needed?? And quit blaming everybody else for the fact that when you talk about successful folks you don’t turn anybody on to any doctors or lawyers.”
Thats like Us bombing Iraqis and then offering them food. LOL. Give me a break. I dont want their fucking ronald mcdonald house, when in 5 minutes they will be calling our sisters,our mothers, our wives, our queens hoes and bitches. they can take the charity and shove it. Giving charity is publicity, its all a image, you just dont get that. 5O CENT, NELLY, JA RULE, are personafied products. thats all they are. walking and breathing products, their target you ask? thats right, look in the mirror.
” Got damn…why blame the rappers for making money they way they do when we pay them for the shit. Hell, at least SOMEBODY IS MAKING MONEY. I’m an economist, one more millionaire in the black community is better than none cuz at least it gives us somebody to use as a point of reference to say, see you CAN be rich.”
Sigh Again. how is a rapper making a million bucks benefiting my community? you are contradicting yourself, you speak of how they are part of our community, and do positive things,blah blah, yet you have failed to proove the positive things they contribute to us. Im sorry, maybe all you see is dollars, and its that mentality that irks me. Its like nowadays, all you do is throw a dollar at our people, and we jump on it like its going out of style. That annoys the fuck out of me, that white people think they can buy me ,and while at it, use a culture that we were once so proud of. Its more than making a quick buck, its taking back our community. Our neighborhoods look like fallujah, yet we should be proud that jayz wears 1 million dollar chain? If every single black person is content with making just a buck, we aren’t going anywhere my friend. Its what we do with that buck. Pdiddy is in a financial comfortable situation, infact admired, why doesnt he use that power now? he cant use the excuse of ,” positive messages dont sell”. Hes pdiddy he can write his name on a roachspray and it will sell. yet he cant see that. because frankly, he could give a rat’s ass. He left the ghetto.
Go anywhere in the world. Anytime anyone hears about black americans, first thing that comes to their mind is Ja Rule, Or Jay-z. Does that not bother you? They dont know saul williams,jill scott, maya angelou, Barack Obama, etc. All they know is the chicken eating booty shaking, platinum wearing images they are bombarded with. I for one, am not having that, there is more to us. thats the point im trying to get across.
You insult and dismiss that article, without even giving a moments thought to the authors message. Why is it that we cant handle criticism? anytime someone speaks out , they are dismissed as being a sellout.Bill Cosby did it, and he was attacked. Its like we want all our dirty laundry kicked under the rug. that wont happen.
“”Are you fucking kidding me? What fucking businesses? A clothing line?”-Ignant negro AKA Infamous Skeptic
See NOW we are getting somewhere. THIS is a problem in the black community. A rapper starts a clothing line and you’re knocking his hustle. If the shit belongs to him why you downplaying the dudes hustle?? Uplift it. But nope…THAT’S what we do, hate. Crabs in a barrel”
First of all, insults are a poor substitute for weak arguments, that ignant negro comment was uncalled for, but your defensive nature only prooves that i hit a nerve. Moving on. Hate? Knocking His Hustle? I officially give up.
its not “hate”, and for the record i cant congrulate a rapper on a clothing line, when i know at the end of the day 70% of the profits go in the pockets of old white men. Since your such a “economist” , you should be aware of this. I repeat, it seems like you are just content with the quick buck, I am not, and as long as there are black people like you who are content with that, The Powers that be will keep throwing the dollars at you. Black people will buy music of substance, but record companies don’t want that, because there is nothing more dangerous than a educated black man. they know it.
Lastly, I repeat, There is nothing wrong with criticism, Because sometimes you need to inspect and break apart the things you love. Its called Tough Love.
Wow. Such passion.
Did it ever occur to everyone that were people to write these feel good articles about all the good we do, they won’t get published? It’s not what the poeple who are buying the papers, putting ads in the papers, want to read.
Furthermore, I keep reading, and forgive me if I’m mistaken (and I’m sure someone will correct me), that it’s not us buying the music. Sure Panama gets his purchase on. But it’s the kids in the suburbs, the white kids in the suburbs who are purchasing the CD’s. They’re the ones making the record companies the real money. So when artists have high sales, their videos get played because advertisers can be charged more if the numbers show that when 50 Cent’s video is on, it’s likely that the advertisers’ target consumers will be tuned in.
We can focus on race all we want. But the bottom line, outside ofour community, is not Black and white, it’s green.
Infamous Skeptic, I know Panama will deal with you soon but I have a comment:
” I REPEAT NO ONE IS Blaming the music , Marilyn Manson has far more pervese and violent lyrics, yet you don’t see a whole generation of youth following him blindly.”
Do you remember Columbine???? Maybe you missed it but some white dudes shot up their school and immediately after the incident all of this fuss was made about how they were into Marilyn Manson. To me, that seems like blaming the music. Someone correct me if I’m wrong…
-Shani 4m Cali..
“Infamous Skeptic, I know Panama will deal with you soon but I have a comment:”
Deal with me? Are you mentally uncapable of refuting my claims or offering your opinions without cosigning for panama? this is a discussion. I make my points, you make yours, there is no right or wrong. Easy concept:)
Do you remember Columbine???? Maybe you missed it but some white dudes shot up their school and immediately after the incident all of this fuss was made about how they were into Marilyn Manson. To me, that seems like blaming the music. Someone correct me if I’m wrong…”
And you will be corrected. Its obvious you did not read one thing i said. are you stating that Marilyn Manson was the cause of those events? I guess the fact that they were bullied and clearly had mental issues has nothing to do with it. I don’t know what news station you watched, but where i live a big fuss was made about bullying in schools. Turn off Billy Oreiley. I applaud your efforts, but nice try. Also It seems that some individuals pratice “selective reading” I said a whole generation of youth, not some isolated incident.
@kajuana
“We can focus on race all we want. But the bottom line, outside ofour community, is not Black and white, it’s green.”
I can cosign to that, but how long are we going to let them exploit our community to get rich?
skeptic: I think more people here would agree with you, or, at least, have a bit less fire in their arguments if you stopped using blanket statements. Finding generalizations is the easiest way to discredit a theory, even if the main idea of the theory isnt faulty. “Many” or even “most” is always better than “all”.
To the Infamous Skeptic:
I’m with you, I love a good debate too. Too bad this isn’t one.
I see you’re point about the reasons behind say, the Vote or Die “movement” not being legit. I completely thought it was bullshit to charge 40 bucks for a shirt. HOWEVER, if it got people voting, or educated anybody about voting…was it all bad??? Just like your dumb ass argument about who is making money off of us. No shit sherlock. The thing is when are white people NOT making money off of us. If that’s the case then why work, or why go to college if you’re just going to end up working for somebody else or having to deal with white people in business.
And let’s examine something you said here: “You accept everysingle propaganda thrown you’re way, because you’re love for hip hop blinds you.”
Dude…maybe you didn’t catch the whole point of what I was saying BEFORE…but the problem is that folks like YOU assume that all the shit you see on TV IS WHAT HIP HOP IS TODAY. Just because that’s the shit you see doesn’t make it the whole. I don’t know how you can’t see that, what with you being so smart and all and being able to so aptly give me lessons on political science. Thanks by the way…my life is complete now.
And you know what…I find it so funny how people are so quick to use Kanye West as a postive rapper. Did he make good music…yep, sure did. But positive?? Like the undertone of his whole album was fuck college. I dropped out and still made it. He had skits mocking individuals who continue on to get advanced degrees, and yet that’s positive?? He says Jesus on a track that isn’t even really talking about Jesus and folks want to say…Kanye is saving Hip hop and putting jesus in peoples minds. I’ll admit, him saying Jesus Walks got a lot of people to say, well, Jesus walks. But he aint telling nobody to go to church. It always kills me how folks want to use Kanye as the positive rapper and say look he sells…PEOPLE DO BUY POSITIVE SHIT. Yeah he’s proof positive that “you fools dont listen to music, y’all just skim thru it.” Once again, CASUAL FAN.
Honestly, I’m not sure why I’m even responding to your long ass comment. You said a whole lot of nothing. Rappers owning business, hell any body owning a business is a positive thing. Yet you claim they aint doing shit but making money for somebody else. That’s exactly what the fuck you are doing when you are in a position of employment. Maybe you own your own company. Maybe you own AOL. Hell…I don’t know, but until you convince me that you AREN’T making money for rich white folks, then that argument holds no water.
And for the record, I didn’t dismiss his article because he spoke bad about hip hop. I have complaints myself. I have articles up on Allhiphop.com about my complaints with hip-hop, and I blame EVERYBODY. My issue with the article is that he clearly has an agenda, one that isn’t rooted in anythign he knows shit about. I assume you know more than he does and yet you fall victim to the same philosophy that the hiphop community and hiphop as a whole isn’t worth shit.
That’s utter bullshit. You people are the reason we can’t rise as a people. I have no problem airing out dirty laundry. I in fact supported Bill Cosby’s comments and was pissed that black folks were calling for his head. Tell the truth…but don’t go calling the shit the bane of existence if you clearly don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Hell, you made my point with this one statement:
“No He (50 Cent) is not responsible for someone picking up a gun and shooting up a store, gangs, or even drugs, but our admiration and praise for him, is a reflection of the problems we need to address.”
I’ll be gotdamn if I didn’t say that we need to figure out WHY people do this. Instead of criticizing every rapper and the hiphop community and basically HATING like shit on folks who are making money and who do INDEED own businesses, why don’t we spend more time trying to solve the problems instead of assuming the shit you see on TV is the whole picture.
Because I’m just tired at this point, let me respond to your last point. I also have no problem with criticism. What I do have problem is with people like Mr. Talley and YOU now complaining about shit that they don’t know much about. If I’m blinded by my love for hiphop, you’re blinded by your hate in that you can’t even give a black man credit for doing something positive. Voting…there was an agenda. Own business…they’re making money for other people. Once again all rap ain’t great. But rap aint’ all hiphop either dunny. But much like the other fuckers who clearly don’t know shit about hiphop and are just consumed with hate and constant criticism, you wouldn’t even know the difference.
And I stand by the fact…you just don’t get it.
I have been debating for days of whether or not I should comment on this…this is a subject dear to my heart. Why??? Because like KRS-ONE has taught me, I am hip-hop. Hip-hop is not just a form of music, like people market it to you. Hip-hop is a culture which is rooted in the Black experience in America…that is why the music sometimes does not retain its artistic integrity. Hip-hop music is reflective of the problems that Black people face in American society and that is trying to be true to themselves while also trying to assimilate…it is a catch 22…
Alot of people are insulting others in this argument by being patronizing and devaluing their statements because of the lack of knowledge of where the other side is coming from. The Infamous Skeptic has come and tried to give political lessons to Panama, and Panama has called the Infamous Skeptic an “ignant negro”. But the Infamous Skeptic doesn’t know if Panama has a Ph.D in political science and Panama doesn’t know if the Infamous Skeptic is a social anthropologist with a specialization in hip-hop history. This argument is getting heated because alot of people relate to hip-hop…in the cases of some people, they are actively involved in hip-hop music and the culture. So I think that we need to stop assuming people’s backgrounds and experiences in the matter…
I do agree with Panama on the fact that I feel the article in the Baltimore Sun was a blanket generalization of hip-hop music in general. Public Enemy still puts out records (www.slamjamz.com or http://www.publicenemy.com), De La Soul just came out with an album (which has videos that will not be played on BET because Viacom feels that De La is no longer relevant to their audience), Paris is coming out with a new album. All of these people who we felt were the upper echelon of what hip-hop should be…the heralded MCs and groups of their time. Well, they are still out there…we, as a general audience, are just not concerned with their music. So I think it is very unfair to judge hip-hop based on the five artists that you see on BET. I blame BET, MTV and VH1 alot of the perceptions of hip-hop today. There are so many artists out there who truly embody the artistic creativity that we are seeking in hip-hop…they are just not supported. Check out http://www.hiphopsite.com, http://www.sandboxautomatic.com, and http://www.dustygroove.com for some music that you may not see on television but is probably better than what you are being exposed to…
Next, just as I was saying earlier, hip-hop is not the problem. Rather it is the result of the American brainwashing that is going on. Infamous Skeptic, I respect what you said about not giving so much credit to people who are starting clothing labels…but at the same time, I don’t look down upon them. America is a capitalistic society that teaches you that your success in life depends on how well you stand above the rest of your peers. You succeed in the workplace by trying to show up and beat your team members and your co-workers rather than cooperating. You are taught that your success is a result of your effort alone, and if someone does not succeed, it is because they did not work hard enough. America has put a dog eat dog mentality into a people who were very community-oriented in the past…a people who are very rooted in family. And so this society teaches you to look out for yourself. I am not saying that this makes it an excuse, but it is a reason. So this selfishness is translated in the music, the artistic expression of ourselves. So don’t place the blame on the result instead of the problem…
How long are we going to let others exploit our community??? As long as we don’t seek information for ourselves is how long. We fall victim to the ways of society just as everyone else in this country does. The thing is that we don’t have as much of a foundation in our past to root ourselves in. We are a people who are quick to let go of the things which we create, the things that we pioneer. Hip-hop is taking the same route that jazz took…it started out as a music that was just indicative of the culture, something for us to release our energies into. Jazz started as party music, so did hip-hop. But later, it was transformed into a voice for people who wanted the freedom to express themselves without boundaries. Only the “hip” could get jazz…only the “hip” could understand hip-hop. But being that these cultures influenced what was cool, cool became popular. And popular becomes mainstream. So you don’t have to have any special type of understanding anymore to get hip-hop…it is accessible to everyone. And while we want the message to reach the masses, the message and creativity has been watered down to appeal to everyone…
But just as I was also saying earlier, this is not all hip-hop. And that is where the debate is coming from. There are people in this argument who are looking at what is presented by the media and the Big 3 distribution companies and saying that is all hip-hop has to offer. In today’s day and age, with the Internet available to everyone, music should be easier to get ahold of and spread to those who would not ordinarily hear it. But we don’t look for it, so we don’t find it. So my thing is, if you are not looking for it, don’t be mad when you don’t find it. That is what people are doing with hip-hop…they want the holy grail, but they are not looking for it. And they are disappointed when they don’t find it…
I look at the Columbine statement and find it funny how things are rationalized across different races. Bullying is the culprit for tragedy in the Columbine community, 50 Cent is the culprit in the Black community. Not unemployment, discrimination, poverty…50 Cent. As I was saying before, don’t blame the result, blame the problem. 50 Cent plays into his image, but in 50′s mind, if he doesn’t make “Candy Shop”, someone else will. It is easy to judge, but hard to understand…
Well done Panama. Now if I may I would like to engage this gentleman.
“Go anywhere in the world. Anytime anyone hears about black americans, first thing that comes to their mind is Ja Rule, Or Jay-z. Does that not bother you?”
How do you know this? Have you been everywhere in the world? How do you know? You accuse Panama of being brainwashed but yet you make statements like this. Are you really sure of this?
First off there is a big difference between RAP and HIP HOP. And for those of you who don’t get it. I will explain by saying that Rap is an element that is apart of Hip hop. Ya see I’m from NYC (you know the place where hip hop comes from) and I was taught there were 4 basic elements to Hip Hop culture. Raping, DJing, Graffiti and B-boying (Breaking to all you squares out there), and some go further to add entrepreneurship. I gave you that definition to say the following.
Just cause some big corporations use a element of hip hop does not mean that they now define what what hip hop is. It just means that they are making money off of us. But what else is new?
Second point. I’m willing to bet that the author of that article (Mr. Talley) doesn’t own one Roots album or one Run-DMC album. He’s talking about something that he has no idea about. Now get ready cause I’m going to pay you a compliment. If you (InfamousSkeptic) wrote that article it would have been more informed than Mr. Talley’s because you have more of an idea of what hip hop is than he does, why because you at least own a Talib Kweli album.
Third point. You said: “Pdiddy is in a financial comfortable situation, infact admired, why doesnt he use that power now? he cant use the excuse of ,” positive messages dont sell”. Hes pdiddy he can write his name on a roachspray and it will sell. yet he cant see that. because frankly, he could give a rat’s ass. He left the ghetto.”
Honestly what power does Pdiddy have? You said it yourself “i cant congrulate a rapper on a clothing line, when i know at the end of the day 70% of the profits go in the pockets of old white men.”
So you contradicted yourself there. On one hand you think Pidddy doesn’t give a damn and the on the other you’re saying that 70% of the profifts go to old white men? So what power does he have?
Lastly: Black people are not the number one consumers of “rap” music. White teenagers are.
Now that tells me that the corporations are praying on the fantasies and fears of white teens. This happened when Rock N Roll first came out. I think we all are tired of our culture being hyjacked but let’s give this some thought. When hasn’t our culture been hyjacked? Hell how you think we got here in the first place? We were kidnapped.
I believe blacks and whites should ban hip hop altogether. It is destroying our world, and values we should hold dear. We should go back to the days where songs like We Are The World was our theme music. Hip Hop is holding our society back.
I am glad that I came back to this post because I can see that some people are still reading it. For the comment posted by white girl, that is a very ignorant comment to make. You are saying that the entire culture and music of hip-hop is destroying morals and values…”hip-hop is holding our society back”??? Hip-hop is just a means of expression…it is only what the artists and people who listen to it make it to be. I has much potential, but it is just the result of people’s mentalities and experiences. So to blame the means of expression as the reason for the downfall of society is a very ignorant view in my eyes…
Hip-hop is not just rap, as Dr. Strangejazz was pointing out earlier. There are hip-hop albums out there with no words…just instrumental music. Is that “destroying our world and values we should hold dear” also? Deejaying is a part of hip-hop culture…turntablism, as some people might call it, is an aspect of deejaying. But you don’t even have to spin hip-hop records to do that. Alot of people have images of hip-hop that are based on incomplete information or biases based in ignorance of the culture. There are aspects of all music that are not desirable by various purists and critics. But there are shining examples of creativity and artistic expression in all forms of music, just as there are some not so memorable things.
I would recommend that you become more knowledgeable on the things that you speak of before you pass judgment on them. Hip-hop is not holding society back, it is a lack of understanding and open-mindedness that is holding our society back. That has always been the case, and from your statements, it seems to still be the case. I don’t feel you have bad intentions from your statement, but it is based in a lack of knowledge nonetheless. Look into all that hip-hop has to offer before you dismiss the culture as a whole…
I understand Maverick. I’m tired of “shake that ass bitch”. I’m tired of “touch your toes bitch”. I’m white, but I don’t want my black sisters to be disrespected. I was driving my daughter to school one day, and this rap song called “bitch suck it” came on. This was on the RADIO! My daughter started crying and clutching my arm. She said “Mom they sound so mean”. I had to tell her that that was a mean man because he was mistreating women. Let’s just go back to We Are The World, because the children are our future.
I understand how you feel, white girl…race really isn’t the reason that I was saying what I was saying. I feel that alot of people are branding and labeling hip-hop without knowing all that hip-hop entails. The true hip-hoppers are really not into the same things that you are talking about. We are tired of that “shake that ass bitch” and that “touch your toes bitch”. But the thing is that is not all that hip-hop is…that is just all that sells these days. Corporations are not interested in taking chances on the next new talent…they are interested in copying what made money before. So that is what they do. And in the effort to try and make money and be successful, artist are forced to not be themselves and to assimilate to the things that are being done before them…even if that means exploitation…
I hear what you are trying to say, but hip-hop overall is not about bitches and hoes. There is so much stuff out there…more stuff that you hear on the radio or TV…that doesn’t get played because it actually has a message and the public doesn’t want messages right now. So don’t judge hip-hop as a whole…it has its good and bad artists just like any genre. But I agree that we all should be tired of this “bitches” and “hoes” trend…
*sigh*
Funny thing about Movable Type…it records IP addresses.