Exactly, WHERE Is That and WHERE Did That Come From??
Something’s been on my mind for quite some time. And it’s bigger than me and you, your mama and your cousin too. It’s a phenomenon that was brought to my attention while reading the book Authenically Black by John McWhorter (who deserves his own entry indeed) about this whole notion of Mother Africa and the ability of us black folks to claim any and everything as a tie to Africa.
And you know what, I agree with him…that’s pure and utter bullshit.
Now I’m not a fan of Mr. McWhorter at all. In fact, I believe that he’s exactly what’s wrong with some black folks in America. And it isn’t that he doesn’t have good ideas because truthfully he does. It’s more in his execution. For instance, as opposed to saying that Amadou Diallo was unjustly murdered for pulling out a wallet, McWhorter takes the side of police officers in pointing out that they are working under stressful conditions and that they feared for their lives. Now I don’t find anything wrong with that statement except for the fact that THEY SHOT THIS DUDE 41 TIMES AND HIS BACK WAS TURNED TO THEM. Forty one mother fuckin’ times???
Look, I know this is old, and most of us are over the Diallo thing, but really, that was a complete miscarriage of justice. So I say fuck’em. Fuck’em up against a wall. Do like NWA and ‘Pac said. Every now and then, its completely understandable to say fuck the police. Not always…but dammit, sometimes it needs to be said.
And like usualy, I’ve not only digressed but completely lost my point.
Aha…Africa. Have you seen Belly?? I’ve seen it a good million times. Even bought the special edition. I love that movie. You’re probably wondering how I could love that movie. See, I don’t view it as a movie, more as an extra long form music video. If you watch it like that, it makes complete sense and flows smoothly. And yes, T-Boz and Taral Hicks both need Oscars for their interpretations of hood chicks that can’t act.
[***Sidenote: Speaking of T-Boz, wasn't her performance the absolute worst you've ever seen on screen? Go ahead, you can admit it. I wonder how many times Hype Williams wanted to shoot her, and I don't mean that in the directorial way either. It's hard to believe that her scenes were the best takes they got on her. If they were, then she is living proof that you cannot do anything you set your mind too. See that kiddes, failure is real. Sometimes there are things you just CAN'T do. Sheesh!***]
At the end of Belly, Nas’ character Sincere and wifey Tionne, decide to move to Africa. Where at in Africa??? You’re guess is as good as mine. They showed some damn trees and the sky and the assumption was that you were somewhere in the motherland, as opposed to say, I don’t know, ANYWHERE ELSE THAT HAS SOME DAMN TREES AND THE SKY!!! The voiceover was very clear as Nas says, “Africa…it was so beautiful.”
Hmmm.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a problem. Now I know that we cannot trace out ancestors back very far. We just know that they came over on some party boats and were promised some bubbly and some new digs, and well, we were lied too. But what we do know is that a majority of our ancestors came over from the Western Coast of Africa. Not exactly South Africa or Madagascar. Not Zimbabwe or the Congo. Not Kenya nor Ethiopia.
So why in the shit is it that everytime we do something we trace it back to Africa??? As a whole?? Now I understand the whole cultural identity thing and the fact that we, as a people, were removed from the original homeland and over time lost our ties to whichever country we originated from and its customs and heritage. Due to this, our history is lacking. We don’t have much of one outside of being Americans, nowadays, and even that’s shady at best.
THIS JUST IN: Visit We The Voices, updated weekly, sometimes daily. Stop by today…heh heh heh.
But that whole notion gets lost on me when we start referring to everything we do as being of African descent. Every dance cannot be traced back to some tribal dance. And I swear, if another dude tells me he got his aim from his ancestors, which is why he’s so accurate with a .45, I just might scream.
Further, I wonder if most people even know any actual Africans. I wonder this because every person I know from Africa refers to their country as their home. They don’t just say Africa when asked where they are from. They say Nigeria or Ghana (or wherever they’re from). When we go everseas and somebody asks where we’re from, we often say America (or some country in the Caribbean if we’re in hostile territory), or the U.S. Kicko, that’s a country…not a continent.
[***Another Sidenote: You ever hear some dude talk about being a "black man of Africa?" You have? Me too. WHERE NIGGA???? Damn, its a whole fuckin' continent. No WONDER we're a lost people. We forego maps and just assume that because no matter what African country you're in, you're still in Africa. So actual location doesn't matter. Cuz we're from Africa, and that's all that matters!***]
So where do we get off appropriating everything to a damn continent?? Dashikis!! Africa. Kwanzaa!!! Africa. Honestly, none of my friends from Africa celebrate Kwanzaa. Nor have I seen any of them in that overly colorful shit you can buy from the African stores in AnyMajorCity, USA. If you ask me, it seems like somebody is pimping Africa. Making money off of the perception of Africa.
Now that I think about it, I also get slightly miffed when folks send out those emails where you list everything about yourself and send it to 30 of your friends or you’ll die a horrible death by papercut, lemon, and telephone cord. One of the questions is always: Have you been to Africa? I can only assume this is the African-American version. I wonder if the white version says, ever been to Russia? People always respond to that question with, no, but I’m planning too. So my question is…WHERE in Africa?? Hell does it matter? Does stepping one foot on the continent equate to soul cleansing because of the journey, trials, and tribulation of our ancestors. And if that’s so, does it matter if our ancestors didn’t actually COME from the part of Africa you step foot on??
You see, people, my people, especially black Americans, are quick to point out that Africa is a continent full of beautiful black people all over. Continents have countries and everybody in Africa isn’t the same. Until we come up with something like Kwanzaa or some other random shit that cannot be factually tied to any particular country, and just say it’s from…AFRICA!!! I have no real beef with Kwanzaa until people start espousing that cultural tie to Africa thing because then my question becomes…WHERE IN AFRICA??? It’s good in theory but dammit, Africa isn’t a big ass country. Everybody in Africa doesn’t speak the same language or follow the same traditions.
Hell, everybody in America doesn’t speak the same language or follow the same traditions. So how can we be so closeminded as to just determine that anything we do black comes from Africa. Like that shit makes sense?? Can we determine a country of origin dammit?? Does it make any difference that people in Egypt and people in Sierra Leone do completely different shit?? Or is that just inconsequential when we are trying to establish that black people were responsible for civilization??
I’m all for determining our origins. But I really hate that black folks just so quickly make some false tie to Africa for any and everything that we do. Newsflash muchacha: Everything ain’t African. Ebonics??? Questionable tie AT BEST. Kwanzaa…umm…right! Kinte clothe??? Named after Kunte?? I don’t know the answer to that but until I see REAL people from Africa wearing it, I’ll pass.
And until somebody can prove to me that Nas was really in Africa, I’m assuming his ass was in South Carolina somewhere looking at some trees.
Unless somebody can prove he was in Kenya or some shit.
But until then…
I’ve thought these same thoughts so many times before.
Good post.
I’m from deepest, darkest South Carolina and that scene form Belly looks like my parents backyard.
I understand your point of increasing intelligence and becoming versed in specified subject matter rather than making a rash generalization of continental commonality. Having said that I do believe in the ethos that is connected to such a seemingly broad term as “African”. I have been to Africa, specifically Morocco located in Northwest Africa. My mother has also been to two nations and five cities within Africa. I think there is validity in relating an African termonology to certain subject matter, although I understand your issue with broad generalization. People do use the term “Continental Africans” and I think someone from a region/nation state in Africa can respect that a bit more than their national identity being taken away by the generalization like “African”. Even relating people to nations is still not good enough if you realy want to get down with it. Tribal families is larger than nationality or contental connection. I must say that Africa is old world and if you look at some of the earliest maps of Africa it was broken up into very large regions and if we did take on the feat of targeting exact roots some of the identified region don’t even exists anymore, however many of the traditions do and are broken up within specific tribes. The complexity of being a continental Black African is deep, man. I wouldn’t be so quick to throw the termonology away, Black Americans do it for a reason, mainly being that we have a loss of history and the one thing we do know is that we have that diasporic connection to the mother land, the first land, the place of first fruits. You have to forgive miseducation and lack of ancestral history and encourage knowledge and research. – Peace and Knowledge, you paled skin Afrikan *giggle* – Boogs
Boogs (and I ain’t pale, I’m sexual lite chocolate), I get your point and I don’t have so much of a problem with claiming roots in Africa. And you’re definitely right, Africa is old world and folks were taken before those regions and areas had boundaries and definitions of what was who and who was what.
I have a beef with folks claiming random things as African just because black folks do them. I’ve had conversations with people who will tell me that we “back that thang up” because thats what our ancestors did. While I’m not one to disagree that our ancestors probably did back that thang up, i do have to say, come the hell on!!! Like for real, claiming the continent as our beginning is understandable, but telling me that I use the verb form “to be” wrong (according to standard english…and there’s a WHOLE ‘NOTHER can of worms about speaking the “white man’s english”)because along time ago my ancestors used the verb to be in certain ways is utter bullshit.
Similarly like in the movie when Nas is like let’s go to Africa. Where dunny?? You been scouting property in Kenya?? Like, it just seems so…random. Black people just use the word Africa like it means black and not as a geographical locale. Black people do it…it must be African!!!
I think thats my beef. Deciding that we want to have a holiday and saying…for African-American’s, it needs to be rooted in Africa…like Kwanzaa, which is largely contrived to me too. I ain’t knockin’ folks who celebrate Kwanzaa, because if it brings families together then so be it, but all the kinte cloth and shit that comes along with it seems like we are basically mocking the shit we are claiming to be upholding.
‘Tis a tad annoying.
Interesting post. I think it’s kinda hard for African Americans (as I know you know) because we don’t feel fully accepted/connected to “America” for various and obvious reasons, and we have no firsthand knowledge of Africa through direct relatives, but we know a connection of some kind exists. So sometimes it seems we might be grasping at straws to find a connection to Africa. I think this lack of full cultural connection and our specific experience in the US makes us one of the most unique groups in the world. I think a real connection with Africa comes from being concerned and educating yourself about the history of the continent and individual countries (which can be similar, hence the sort of Pan-African emphasis), although I understand the sort of longing to connect with Africa that ends up getting expressed in more superficial ways.
I recently saw a documentary where some black brits had gene testing to determine their ancestral connection to African (and elsewhere); the three people profiled on the doc actually went to the places where some of their ancestors were from.
Interesting Post Panama. I’m not over Diallo but I understand what you’re trying to say here. It would be interesting to find out how many African Americans actually know someone from Africa (born and raised or 1st generation American). When I mean “know” someone I’m talking can actually call on this person in an emergency. Just curious.
Interesting post…yadadaddddaaaaa…You know after you mentioned T-Boz in Belly, as I read the rest, all I could hear was her saying, “Africa? That’s far.” With every break for space between paragraphs, I heard her ass!! Thanks!! Thanks a lot!!!
And you know I know where I’m from: Mexico + Ethiopian = Mexiopian
What the fuck??!!! *looks around, reaches above her head and closes the top of her dome back up*
Panama, I swear it’s like you reached in my brain and snatched out my thoughts on this one! Excellent entry!
And on the day that I just watched Coming to America too! PERFECT!
LOL. *smh* Ok a little birdie told me that the reason why the only thing you see is trees and sky at the end of Belly is b/c, Hype ran of sufficient funds (needed for the movie) so he couldn’t finish filming it all. Which therefore explains the question marks that lie over the head of you (and the rest of us clueless ass folk, who also coped Belly like over a ga-zillion times) whether or not that was REALLY Kenya Sincere and Tionne moved to, or some other ‘designated area’…lol. Supposively Hype said he “was going” to film them actually in Kenya (?) chillin’ I guess, but ran out of money. However, I don’t know if all this is true or not? Like I said, a little birdie told me. Mmm? Maybe you heard the same? And yes. A long ass music video Belly was. You hit that right on the money. lol.
ok so interesting post. i also love the movie belly, and dammit if it isnt like a long ass video. thats funny. regarding diallo..that shit was foul and good to b reminded er’y once and awhile. i also concur with the whole, i got that from my ancestors….. well we dont even say that. we say from my people from bac in da day. u know how we used to do. shit is crazy bc everything we do now is from lots of other races..even tho we all come from one place… not just africans….we got too mixed up to say wat came from who. and to not claim other ancestry isnt just. i am not knocking where my people came from, but… i need to acknowledge everyone else
Not feeling it… how do you know that backin that thang up didn’t come from Africa? If the rest of us don’t know about Africa, what makes you an authority. True Kwanzaa is not derived from Africa, but it IS based upon a harvest season that occurs in Africa. Stop hatin!
My dear Trump Tight, thanks for playing.
You ask a good question. How do I know backing that thang up DOESN’T come from Africa?? Hmm…I don’t. But fuck that, how do you know it does?? And because black folks DO IT you just assume to err on the side of…well, black=African??? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.
I’m not an authority on Africa, but I am an authority on spotting bullshit. Which was my point. A lot of shit that we do here we just link to Africa cuz black folks are doing the shit. We want to celebrate black love?? Let’s add an African tint to it because black love is African since we all descended from Africa in some way or another. That way…we are paying tribute to our roots.
Newsflash…YOU AREN’T. During Kwanzaa celebrations…how many Africans usually participate??? NONE. There are numerous people from Africa here in the United State and they don’t throw any of the Kwanzaafests. Why is that??? That’s the shit I’m talking about. All this “African” stuff that people claim to represent and very little of it even includes ACTUAL AFRICANS.
So before you start calling me out as not being an authority on Africa, make sure you check with an ACTUAL AFRICAN about whether or not you are backing that thang up in the old African tradition you are claiming to do so in.
Game Over.
I think you got some fair points there but at the same time I think you’re missing something.
Black people didn’t create those boarders that separate those countries. Africa was made up of various ethnic groups (tribes) before the Europeans came in and f*cked sh*t up.
I think we as a people would like to think of Africa as a united country in the abstract. I guess that is what the Pan-African movement was about.
As far as Kwanzaa goes I think it’s a rip off holiday. It was invented by Dr. Maulana Karenga
he’s a professor and head of the department of Black Studies at California State University.
Basically he pulled different traditions from various African cultures and made something from it. It’s a marketing tool to get that Christmas dollar.
Now to your point about how EVERYTHING CAN’T BE from the motherland. I respectfully disagree. A good majority of things we do can be traced back to Africa. Here’s a short list of what is and isn’t African.
Throwing bows – ain’t African.
Sitting on 22s – ain’t African
Crip walking – ain’t African
Druming – African
Droppig it like it’s hot – African
Math – African
Hope this list helped some.
First of all, Panama… I NEVER said that backin that thang up WAS in FACT African… I just said that you don’t know. Why do you think there are anthropologists, historians, and ethnomusicologists who specialize in studying the historical ties that bring Black Americans and African people (from ALL OVER THE CONTINENT) together through proven, tangible facts, artifacts, and documentation. We are able to see similarities in many of our dances; many of musical styles, so don’t hate on those similarities… instead of trying to make a move for pan-Africanism and a togetherness, you are a separatist… but not like me – you’re a separatist of the various African descendants of the world… denying our shared histories and cultures.
You sound as if you’re glad we lost our history when we were brought over as slaves… anyway, I REGULARLY celebrate Kwanzaa, and although I agree with much of what you said Dr. StrangeJazz, I would have to disagree that it was made up for material gain. How much money do you really think he made off of Kwanzaa? You ni&&as still ain’t celebrating it because you’re ashamed to do something that may be related to your African ancestry (mostly speaking to Panama at this moment). So, Panama… you may not have seen Africans at your Kwanzaafests but thats because you don’t have them… my family however, is always joined by Nigerian friends in our hometown who may not celebrate Kwanzaa in their home countries, but enjoy celebrating common traditions with their American sisters and brothers…
I will NEVER stop claiming similarities to my African ancestry… you need to get more familiar with yours, perhaps.
Actually Dr. Strangejazz, the list added more to the confusion. If dropping it like its hot is indeed African, then why isn’t cripwalking? You’re telling me the intricate steps and rhythmic movements cannot be traced back to Africa as well as dropping it like its hot?? Or say the Bus stop, or the Mashed Potato??
And what about Dipping It Low, the natural cousin to dropping it like its hot? (Shout-outs to Christina Milian!)
How does one determine (since according to Trump Tight) I’m not an authority, what IS African??
I mean I can watch lots of documentaries and see some shit that looks like something I saw up in the club, so does that mean it came from Africa? And if I assume the person I saw performing such acts couldn’t spot Africa on a map, do I assume that its the deep innate African in us that causes us to do such things instinctually? Or was it the traditions that were just passed down over time…from grandmother to mother to daughter??
I BEEN tellin folks that crip walkin is from the Native Americans. check it at your nearest pow wow.
Don’t ya’ll AFRICANS try and steal it away from us!
that is all.
Agree Crip walking could possibly be Indian in origin.
If we are to agree that Arfica is the craddle of civilization then we should agree that most dance can be traced back to the continent.
Sorry I added to the confusion.
Wow, good thing that the man Panama put me onto this discussion today…I would have just been working, all oblivious to the war that is going on.
Of course, I have a couple of opinions on this matter. First of all, though Africa is “old world” and perhaps we would like to think of all Africans in this utopian, unified sense, the fact of the matter is that this was not the case. There were many conflicts between the people of Africa and all Africans are not the same. Point blank. So when we want to take credit for the pyramids and the Sphinx and various foods and whatever, remember that it more than likely is not even your people who came up with that. It is similar to the British taking credit for escargot, or the Slavic people saying that because the Germans created Volkswagons, then all Europeans should share the acclaim. While these are all trivial examples, you have to realize that continental classifications are probably the broadest groups that we could divide ourselves into. In Africa, we had the Egyptians, the civilization of Kush, the Moors, the Arabs, and a whole host of other people. Throughout history, most of these groups fought each other at one time or another. So to say that descendents of Kush should claim the accomplishments of the Egyptians is kinda ridiculous. That is like telling the Serbians to praise the Croatians…and if you don’t realize the fallacy in that, then my whole last paragraph is lost on you…
I completely understand the need of African-Americans to associate with Africa. We are probably some of the most unique people in the world in the fact that all of our history that is specific to who we are and where we came from exists solely in America, a place that we are not native to. Other groups in America can trace their lineage back across continents to their places of origin. In essence, we are the only true Americans in the fact that our whole identity is based on our experience in this country. We are without complete knowledge of self and that is why we seek so hard to define ourselves in the context of Africa.
The thing that becomes dangerous is when we overly extend our possessiveness and make everything African…alot of people don’t really use any discretion when claiming something came from Africa and it trivializes the things that really do have root in the Motherland. I was reading Dr. Strangejazz’s post and I saw that he/she is attempting to “school” people on what is African and what is not. So it is said that drumming is African. There are a number of cultures that had drums and percussive instruments in the past…some are unique to Africa, but drumming overall is not African. “Dropping it like it’s hot” is not necessarily African…if you disagree, then what makes it African? Prove yourself right by disproving me. Is it African because people of African descent are doing it? Is it African because it is dancing? Is it African because it is done to Black music? All types of dancing and gyrations are not African. And lastly, math…how are we going to generalize the entire concept of math to Africa. The Native Americans had a form of abacus before we even came to this country…they arrived in North America by the strait that connected North America with northern Asia. They had no contact with us. If we want to claim math, can Arabs claim words? Since the Phoenecians, people of the Fertile Crescent, were the first to have a written language, should they run around bragging about teaching people how to write? And if we are sitting up and trying to cling to the accomplishments of the Egyptians, most of us are not even remotely Egyptian in descent…
As for Kwanzaa, I really don’t celebrate it. It has nothing to do with me being ashamed of my African heritage, I just don’t agree with it. I am a person who actually does pay attention to the things that I practice and I try not to practice the things that have a basis in inaccuracy. I really don’t celebrate Christmas…Jesus wasn’t even born on December 25th (look it up). I don’t celebrate Easter…how can the day that Jesus died change every year? I don’t celebrate Kwanzaa…how can a man who had violent altercations with the Black Panthers be promoting brotherhood and good feeling? I don’t knock people who celebrate it, but respect my reasons for not celebrating it. It does not make me any less Black…
This is long, but the problem is the fact that we have to validate our existence in things that we are not entirely sure that apply to us. We have a unique opportunity to define ourselves, but we are doing a poor job of it. I think we should stop making everything that we do African because while we have a tie to Africa, Africa has no tie to us. What I mean by that is that while Africa has directly or indirectly made us into what we are, we are not dictating or even influencing what is African. Most of us have no idea of what that is. So until we can be sure that we are recognizing our African roots and not just generalizing everything as African, why don’t we focus on defining ourselves in the context that we live. Most of us won’t go to Africa in our lifetime, but we are so worried about living up to the standard of “ancient Africa”. We have no idea of what that is…be aware of where you came and that your people have been responsible for many things that have shaped history. But also realize that at this point in time, there are more direct things defining you than the fact that the Egyptians taught the Greeks math, or the fact that the Blues originated in Africa. We need to take everything that we have now and define ourselves at this point in time, instead of trying to claim the accomplishments and glories of people from the past. In 2000 years, will people still be trying to do the same things to us that we are doing to our ancestors?
Pookie is here to make a comment. LOL
I feel you Panama…
The thing that always gets me is that we claim Africa as our place of origin, but many people from Africa don’t claim us. They still say we are Americans.
Do you also find it interesting, that anyone with a bit of Black in them is considered Black…is that us claiming everything again. I know this is a little off topic, but so what! Roll with the flow.
Trump Tight:
I have no problem with noticing similarities. They are everywhere. But unlike some people, fuck that, YOU, I’m not going to be so quick to say, hmm…the color red was in Africa; therefore, red is African. (READ: SARCASM) Are there many noticeable links between African-Americans and Africans?? OF COURSE. Hell, skin color is one. Music, some dances, etc. I agree with that. History clearly. We are descendants of Africa. All black people. Never once have I denied that.
What I do take issue is with people placing this superficial shit in the universe in attempts at “claiming” their true history. I skip because African‚Äôs skipped. I drop it like it‚Äôs hot because my ancestors did so in hopes of bringing the rains! You think I’m ashamed of Kwanzaa? I just don‚Äôt participate. I am however ashamed at motherfuckers taking seven days out of the year in the name of Africa then telling me I need to get with my history. THAT’S what brings me shame.
You think I’m ashamed of my African ancestry?? What reason would I have to be ashamed of it? Hell most times, I’m on the other end of this argument arguing about the true origins of certain things. In all the years you’ve known me not ONCE have I been ashamed of African history. However, I‚Äôd like to be respectful of the RIGHT history. Not just making up cockamamie shit that has no factual basis anywhere.
Seems to me that I’m not the one who needs to get more familiar with my history. Cuz darling…it ain’t all African anyway. I know who I am and I‚Äôm not afraid to not claim some shit that might be clearly random. I don’t have to do all things that I “think” are African in order to prove to myself, and ACTUAL AFRICANS, that I’m down for the cause.
Especially if the cause has no real roots.
Right here, at this break in the debate, I inject my OPINIONS. P, I’m with you ALL the dayum way. Stop claiming shit you’ve never researched for yourself. And before you offer up gibberish, please make sure you understood what was said.
RE: Maverick
The remains of the first man and woman was found in Africa. If you need proof of this I can provide you the links and maybe a book or two. I say that to make the following point….
That means MAN STARTED THERE. Now this mere fact alone was HIDDEN from black people for decades. Now think for a minute about the millions of black people that died not knowing or ever realizing that they had a history. Its one of those things that really gets me angry when I think about it. When I think of the generations that have passed with out knowing anything about where they came from. Think for a second what that really means.
“How are we going to generalize the entire concept of math to Africa? My answer is simple. Egypt is in Africa and the Egyptians are credited for creating the concept before any other civilization. It doesn’t what other civilizations did after them that is not my point my point is that it started in Africa. It don’t matter what culture is credited for it.
I get your point about how we take credit for the accomplishments of the Egyptians when we ourselves don’t know where we came from.
Now consider this; we are all black a thousand years ago things were probably very different because we all knew our respective cultures. Today is not the case. At the end of the day that is what we are all grouped in as. So yes we are decendants of various ethnic groups who may or may not have had conflict with each other but when we come to America WE ARE BLACK. Just like at the end of the day a German and a Russian will have their own problems butwhen they come to this country they are both WHITE. Ya feel what I’m getting at here?
Now on to what you said in your second paragraph “In essence, we are the only true Americans in the fact that our whole identity is based on our experience in this country. We are without complete knowledge of self and that is why we seek so hard to define ourselves in the context of Africa.”
First off what about the native Americans? Would you not make the arguement that they are really the true Americans left? For the record my parents are from Guyana so I’m first generation American all of my experiences in this country are based on what my parents learnt from their home country. I agree with what you said but I don’t think it is true for every black American.
I was taught that Africa was the craddle of civilization. Meaning that music started there, dance started there, and art started there. If I’m wrong then please someone show me where civilization began? If not Africa then WHERE? Now of course I don’t know the proper name of the village where the first drum was made or the name of the village where the first person who dropped it like it was hot danced but I do know that it didn’t happen in Europe.
“This is long, but the problem is the fact that we have to validate our existence in things that we are not entirely sure that apply to us.”
You are on to something with that. I’ll be the first one here to agree that black Americans have a very big identity problem. We have been defined by everyone but ourselves.
“What I mean by that is that while Africa has directly or indirectly made us into what we are, we are not dictating or even influencing what is African.”
Disagree. Black Americans have influenced Africa in many different ways. Jazz, hip-hop, and art to name a few.
By the way I’m heading to Morocco for a 10 days starting April 1st.
Okay, this is good…I was just explaining to Panama that I don’t feel I presented what I was thinking as clearly as I could. So let me clear up a few of my statements and ask you about a couple of your statements, Dr. Strangejazz…
First, statement that you made on the remains of the first man being found in Africa is a bit ambiguous. The term “first” as it was meant to be used, means that these remains are the earliest remains that we have found, not necessarily the “first”. We cannot say that this person was the “Adam” of society…we have merely not found anyone yet who predates him. So we cannot assume conclusively that this is the first person in the world.
Secondly, the cradle of civilization is not in Africa…it is in the Fertile Cresent. The areas that countries such as Iraq, Iran, Syria and others occupy now. We need to be accurate when we say certain things. Africa may have been the place where most of the early great civilizations were located, but it was not the cradle of civilization. The Fertile Cresent is technically in Asia (the Middle East).
Next, Egyptians are credited with creating the concept of trigonometry, not math overall. Native Americans used math before they came to this country, people who occupied lands in the Middle East used math before the Egyptians. The Greeks even had mathematical concepts…they did not have the concept of trigonometry however. The Egyptians perfected this form of math by using it in their architecture and various other things. But because the Egyptians created Trig does not mean they created math…
Next, when a German and a Russian come to this country, they are both white to US. White people do not consider them white, just as they do not consider Jews and Slavic people white. This is why Hitler was torturing and persecuting the Jewish people in Europe during WWII…so our generalizations are not the same ones that the rest of the world are making. These people have a sense of their people and their culture and realize that all Caucasians are not “white”…white is a term reserved for people of Anglo-Saxon descent…
As for the comment about us being the only true Americans, I did not mean it in the sense of possession or who owns this country…I meant it in an ideological sense. Even Native Americans are aware of their roots in the northwestern part of North America and even their exodus from Asia many centuries ago. Though this is not a main part of their heritage, they are still aware of the places that they come from and the fact that their history is also based in other places. We are the only true Americans because that is all that we are…”American”. Though we have basis in Africa, we don’t know where. We don’t know any of our own specific history…specific to us as individuals. Our entire lineage and pedigree is solely based in this country. That is what I meant…
Lastly, while Africa may be incorporating things that we are doing in the states with regard to jazz, hip-hop, and art, those are things we actually “know” started in Africa. The blue note which is used in jazz and blues does not even exist in American music…it is directly related to the music of Africa. Hip-hop is based on Black music in America, which is gospel, jazz, and blues (which lead to rock ‘n roll, R&B, and hip-hop). But Black music in America is directly attributed to Africa. So the things that we are sure of are related to Africa, we ignore those influences…that is like saying Dave Koz or Kenny G is influencing the Black artform of Jazz. Blacks influenced them first!!!
We gotta get our facts straight before we start to form our opinions based on misinformation. And that is what I think lies at the heart of this conversation…
Maverick is right. Natives can claim MAFF and CRIP WALKIN.
continue…
My LAST comments are on Kwanzaa… it is OUR history now. Kwanzaa is based upon some (NOT ALL) African principles, traditions, and a harvest season. Can we link it then – since it is based upon some African cultures? YES, absolutely… is it an African celebration, NO, but it is based loosely… get a grip…
And one more thing, AS A HISTORIAN, I feel obligated to let ALL of you know that it is possible to do your genealogy and find some traces of your history in Africa. Do you think Alex Haley was bullishin when he made Roots? No, he was able to trace his family’s roots and the ship they were brought over on and then make some logical assumptions about the geographical region which they were from. If you need some tips, perhaps I can help… and then MAYBE we can get closer to knowing where we come from and a little about the traditions that are similar between our African ancestors, and our cousins who remained over there, and us, the African Americans who are in the United States and some in the Caribbean, South America, and other places… if someone wants to test whether or not the origins of man were found in Africa, FIND ME PERSONALLY… you gotta be trippin…
Trump Tight, I don’t think that any of us that are commenting are the “Indiana Joneses” of this whole archaeological thing. So while I agree the the earliest remains were found in Africa, we do not know that this is where man originated or even if this man was from the area where he was found. The continents and many geological landforms were different in the past and it may be the case that this person migrated from somewhere else and merely died where he was found. However, I am not really trying to disprove that he was from Africa. However, just because this cousin of man (I don’t even believe the man was homo sapien) was found in Africa does not mean that the origins of man are in Africa. We need to be careful of jumping to conclusions when we cannot definitively prove something…
You are absolutely correct that we can do things to trace where we came from, though I believe that many of the things that are available to us were not available to Alex Haley. His family actually kept some good accounts of their history and he used much of that to trace his way back. But Alex Haley did not have Egyptians in Roots, and he did not look back to them and their accomplishments in an attempt to claim their history as his own.
It is up to you whether or not you want to celebrate anything. But I respect it more when people practice things for the principles behind it rather than the history. Because history is often skewed by the people who pass the information down…history is only as good at the historian…
Because history is often skewed by the people who pass the information down…history is only as good at the historian…
Very true. Now think who are the people writing/and teaching history and who are the people who are defining us as a people?
Now this line sounds interesting…
“The continents and many geological landforms were different in the past….”
But before you said…
“The Fertile Cresent is technically in Asia (the Middle East).” Who’s to say that thousands of years ago there was no Middle East. Maybe those countries were connected to Africa at one time. Isn’t that possible?
I think we both can agree that black people really need to find their own identity. But somehow I don’t think embracing America as a whole is apart of that being that. America is (to quote Chris Rock) the uncle that molested you but sent you to college.
Hmm..first of all, kudos on a interesting post.
i agree with maverick and panama. Before i explain my reasons for agreeing with them, allow me to give u brief background. I am a tunisian(north africa) who has resided in america for the last ten years. Personally i never heard of “kwanzaa” till i came to reside in the U S of A. This whole notion of a unified africa is completely preposterous. African nations are as different as night and day, all we share is a continent. We possess different languages, different cultures, different ideologies and religious beliefs. Yes we are all aware that african americans have ancestoral ties to parts of africa(See the keyword:Parts). There are areas of africa that have never seen slavery. Some of you speak of africa like its america, some country divided into states. Definitely not the case at all. In fact all africans do not even resemble eachother, The stereotypical image of a “african” portrayed in western media is downright laughable. Go to east africa and u will find black people that can easily pass for arabs and indians, whereas in west africa it might be a different case. Im tunisian and i never try to take credits for the accomplishments of the egytians. Egytians have nothing to do with me.And yes, nothing offends me more than seeing distorted views and stereotypes americans try to place on us. Stop the generalizations.I dont celebrate kwanzaa. I dont wear a dashaki( i think thats how its spelt), and i dont “drop it like its hot”, but we do bellydance:)
So Mr trump tight,if u have any hopes of connecting with the “motherland”. I suggest u do some research and find out exactly where you came from, instead of chasing this nonexistent unified Africa, because as an african i can tell u, it does not exist.
Dr. Strangejazz, I just wanted to right and say that you are absolutely correct…those countries could have very well been connected to Africa at one point. Do you or I know whether that is true or not? No, we don’t…yet the difference is that I don’t know if it is true, so I feel I cannot claim it is true. You, on the other hand, seem to be saying that you don’t know if it is true, so you will assume that it is true until proven otherwise. I think that assuming truth until it is proven false is a very dangerous thing to do…
I guess that is where we disagree. The truth is perception. Facts are an other story. And that’s probably where things get really messy because we don’t know the facts because so much of the history is distorted.
Just for the record I believe that black Americans have a identity problem and out of that comes this desparate need to be connected with Africa. What would you propose be the alternative?
Yes we all as individuals need to create or find our own identities blah blah blah. But where has that gotten us as a whole people? Not very far if you ask me.
As I stated earlier I do not celebrate Kwanzaa. But I understand the need for that kind of thing.
As for Africa being a united country goes….Well it’s not going to happen in our lifetime eventhough the OAU are taking steps toward it.
It’s a nice dream.
You are right…we do disagree. Because truth is not perception. That is like saying that because the police who shot Amadou Diallo thought he had a gun, that makes it true and justified for them to shoot him. You can be lying or mistaken, but either way, you are false. There is truth and there is fiction. You cannot come up with your own truth…and that is what takes the validity out of things that people say who think this way.
As for the identity problem, how do you propose that Blacks correct their identity problem without knowledge of self. You trivialize individuals needs to find their own identity, but you say we need to be unified as a “whole people”? This does not make any sense. Instead of reaching to Africa at this point, we need to reach to the brother next door, or the sister down the street. We are not unified here in this country, yet you feel the answers lie across the ocean. The alternative is to promote knowledge of self and history of our people in this country first, and then extend ourselves further once we have a foundation.
I understand the need for Kwanzaa…I don’t want to make it seem like I am knocking it. Anything that people celebrate or practice needs to have specific meaning to that person. So if people have found a meaning in Kwanzaa that enriches their life, I am all for it. Just don’t judge me because I have not found that same meaning for it…
The time is over for all of this dreaming…we need to start acting. And the first thing is to stop trying to define ourselves by our past and start looking for our purpose today…
Easy now there Maverick. You put a lot of words in my mouth. And you’re jumping to a lot of conclusions. So let’s clear some shhh up.
“You trivialize individuals needs to find their own identity, but you say we need to be unified as a “whole people” This does not make any sense.?”
I was talking about the people who in there search for their own identity become selfish. Some of us tend to be from the school of “I got mine you get yours.” school of thought. And that’s when things get really dangerous.
“We are not unified here in this country, yet you feel the answers lie across the ocean. The alternative is to promote knowledge of self and history of our people in this country first, and then extend ourselves further once we have a foundation.”
I never said I knew where the answers were. If you think we need to look within and focus on our history in this country cool. That’s great. If you think embracing America is where we need to start then fine. In my opinion we can do both.
“Just don’t judge me because I have not found that same meaning for it.”
Who’s judging you? Not me. I don’t celebrate Kwanzza either.
If you don’t look to the past then how would you know where you came from?
No need for me to be easy because I am not coming at you…I am just trying to approach the things that I am assuming you are saying. All we can really do is assume what people are trying to say from their comments on this post, because none of us truly know what the other person may mean…
You are right…the “I got mine you get yours” mentality is dangerous. But not when it comes to identity. It is dangerous when we talk about material gain and things where in order for you to gain it, you must stand above someone else. With identity and self-realization, we can all get that together. So I don’t see the danger in that…
Also, I am not saying embrace America, I am saying embrace Blacks in America. There is a difference. American culture is watering us down…not just Blacks but people of all races. You are a person before you are an America. All of these associations and affiliations that we are placing on each other are causing us to define ourselves in abstract concepts. You can’t touch citizenship…you can’t see religion. However, you can see that you are Black…that is an association that is concrete. This concept of America is not. So we need to look toward unity with the people that we see everyday before we start looking for bonds with people we may never meet…
As for the judging, I wasn’t speaking to you in particular…it was a general statement.
It is fine to look at the past, but you are defined by the present as well. The things and the people around you define you as well as where you came from. And if the people around us, the Black people living in America, are not in the position where they need to be, that reflects on us all. The glory of the past does not affect the position that we are in now…we need to worry about acting on things that are happening now. The people from the past lived their lives…it is time for us to live ours…
I cannot believe that AS A HISTORIAN you chose Alex Haley to hold up as a model to follow for tracing our roots and history.
“Do you think Alex Haley was bullshittin when he made Roots?”
Uh, yeah, pretty much.
AS A JOURNALIST, I feel obligated to let you know that slapping a “non-fiction” title on a highly fictionalized (and partially plagiarized) piece of writing does not a historical, genealogical account make.
Hello all, nice post.
I’m an African woman. Nigerian to be exact.
I have nothing controversial to add here, seems to me like you guys wanna just either research this or are just letting off some steam.. which is all good in my book.
I just gotta say this.. with regards to the question of the middle east/iraq and iran possible being a part of Africa..
They ACTUALLY were a part of Africa, known as Gondwanaland. at that point, the geographical plates shifted over centuries and caused the land drift which seperates the mid east from Africa.
Oh and some mentioned above that Africans refer to Black Americans as Americans.. yep some do, but so what?.
The point is no-one can take your heritage away from you if you don’t give it up.
I’ve been arpund Americans who refer to Africans as booty scratchers.. I’ve read blogs by Black American women referring to Africans as booty scratchers, so what?.
I’ve had countless discussions with African Americans about the issue of Africa and what it mens to them and to me. And why black Americans can be viewed sepeerate from the diaspora..
But I digress.
There are many things that originate from Africa, the place is like that, we don’t create everything and we don’t destroy everything. In anycase, I’ve rambled on enough.
Peace
Thanks… I’m a Ms. not a Mr…. Hadiah. And I was the one who mentioned doing genealogical research, because I AM a historian, and I currently assist my mother in doing the research on our family. We have been able to trace to parts of the Caribbean, in hopes to lead us further back, so I am attempting to do that… the problem is not me; its the people that are NOT attempting to find their connections to PARTS of Africa. Forgive us lowly African Americans who are searching for some connection to the Motherland… this has been a very disheartening experience…
and to the Diva… Alex Haley’s piece was fictional, but his research was not. Peace to you.
I don’t see why this “has been a very disheartening experience”…who are you doing this for? I hope not the people on this list. This should not be disheartening if you are doing it for yourself…
This whole conversation is not to discourage people who want to find out more about their African heritage…it is to discourage people in finding purpose in their lives by looking to others. It is very good to find out as much as you can about where you came from. But at the same time, realize that you are defining your own existence everyday and that ancestors from 2,000 years ago cannot define you as much as you can define yourself. Dr. Strangejazz said earlier how there are so many Blacks that died not knowing that their people may have been among the first on this earth. I really hope he is not saying that this somehow left them incomplete when they died. Because you should have lived your life to the fullest, despite that. These things that we find out about our ancestors are great things to know, but your life should not have less meaning if you don’t know that. And that is what it seems to me like some people are saying…
Here’s what I do think. I think generations of our people died without really knowing anything about themselves; as far as their history/culture goes. Of course some were able to hand it down through oral tradition but most of our history/culture was lost. Do I think their lives were incomplete? No. Incomplete is too harsh a term. I would say they were cheated.
following the Dr Strangejazz trend:
Pouring out liquor for the dead homies – African
My one point…If one doesnt embrace a culture which is a facet of its many roots then you can expect another to peddle it to them bastardizaed and diluted so that they may never truly know the specifics..In the whole notion of the genral african usuage by black americans the ideology is of ‘we dont know exactly where but we know something belonging is there’ you know and as referring to dropping it like its hot..It DEFITINATELY african..I can tell you of a village of african women called the lagos? who were nationally known within africa for dipping it low and shakingi t fast..Now Im not saying its stripper steez shit but its a complete indication of some of the dances we have in the streets ya know
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Wow! I like how I wasn’t even looking for this subject. I was actually trying to find where Pimpin originated (its for a project at school, don’t worry,)but my stupid word engine on my computer took the words “Pimpin…Africa” from your paragraph and led me to this complex and sophisticated article on “my heritage” and on my “true” heritage. I’m so happy I found this site. It’s so weird, I never really took the time to just sit and think about this subject, and its like this article has completly opened my mind and eyes to ignorant sayings as “I’m from A-Country” or, “Yea, Africa is my homeland”. Yea, sure, it might seem funny (or atleast, it was funny to me), but now I realize how stupid they truly make us black people look and sound. Truly this was an intelligent peice and I think it deserves to be put in a newspaper or magazine somewhere!